The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[bengal-stripe]

Is that rubber sole stitched on or glued on?
Surely it would be glued on, those small stitches would be so difficult to take through to the rubber.

The Commando soles are cemented.

You cannot stitch heavy rubber soles by hand. Leather and rubber act differently. You use your awl, poke a hole, remove the all and go with needle (bristle, nylon thread or steel) from either end through the hole. In leather, the hole stays open, in rubber it closes instantly. Also presses and machines for finishing are necessary for a good result. Apart from G&G who have their own factory with all the required equipment, all other Westend shoemakers give heavy rubber soles (not much demand for) to some local repair shop. I don't know whether they do Topy protection soles themselves or farm them out as well.

The initial idea was to have next to the handstitched seams another machine made one. But then I had second thoughts about that 'two passes' look. So I opted for a cemented sole.


Before the rubber sole was fitted:

 

[j ingevaldsson]

The Commando soles are cemented. You cannot stitch heavy rubber soles by hand. Leather and rubber act differently. You use your awl, poke a hole, remove the all and go with needle (bristle, nylon thread or steel) from either end through the hole. In leather, the hole stays open, in rubber it closes instantly. Also presses and machines for finishing are necessary for a good result. Apart from G&G who have their own factory with all the required equipment, all other Westend shoemakers give heavy rubber soles (not much demand for) to some local repair shop. I don't know whether they do Topy protection soles themselves or farm them out as well. The initial idea was to have next to the handstitched seams another machine made one. But then I had second thoughts about that 'two passes' look. So I opted for a cemented sole. Before the rubber sole was fitted: View attachment 2230845

On stitching rubber soles by hand, I thought so too before, that it's not doable, since that's what European makers always have said. But it's not the case. In Indonesia, more or less all the bootmakers do it by hand, in many cases with great looking results. It's trickier and requires a technique where you insert the needle together with when the awl is removed, but certainly doable. Also some Japanese and Chinese makers sole stitch by hand. They usually carve a channel in the rubber sole as well, so the stitching isn't placed on top of the rubber with only the pull from the machine making them sink in a bit, which to my experience also has resulted in a better durability of the stitches at the bottom.

For my job with Skolyx I've worked together with Midas Bootmaker (the workwear branch of Winson), and the owner Emil explained that it costs more for them to take all the boots to the only place in Bandung that has a Rapid machine, than to stitch it by hand in their workshop...

Here's some examples of sole stitching by Midas, for us they do it through Dainite Studded, Vibram Eton, Dr. Sole Supergrip etc.

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]

I am not sure if it’s still the case, but in the past you could ask Vass to stich the rubber sole by hand. I have one MTO pair of boots in which they agreed to do that but it was in 2017.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

You cannot stitch heavy rubber soles by hand.

You would think it would be impossible, but it looks like Lattanzi did it.
Hand stitched rubber soles??

The initial idea was to have next to the handstitched seams another machine made one. But then I had second thoughts about that 'two passes' look.

Probably better you avoided the machine stitched second stitch like many Italian shoes do (slipsole stitched to the outsole) in norvegese.
Why?
Because like Nicholas Templeman said in one of Kirby's videos, the machine stitched sole is done very differently from a hand stitched sole.
Using a machine stitch for a sole would be a complete compromise because the sole would be stiffer and mold less to the foot than a hand stitched sole (usually).

The main thing with your shoe is, the main integrity is there, ie, the out turned upper is secured very solidly to the slipsole with a small stitch, so no water is getting through that boot when doing outdoor activities.
That rubber outsole can be easily replaced or glued back, so no downsides when gluing it. Machine stitching that slipsole to rubber outsole would have changed the effect of how that boot wears (stiffening effect like Nicholas talked about).

 

[Son Of Saphir]

On stitching rubber soles by hand, I thought so too before, that it's not doable, since that's what European makers always have said. But it's not the case. In Indonesia, more or less all the bootmakers do it by hand, in many cases with great looking results. It's trickier and requires a technique where you insert the needle together with when the awl is removed, but certainly doable.

exactly, have seen it too.

For my job with Skolyx I've worked together with Midas Bootmaker (the workwear branch of Winson), and the owner Emil explained that it costs more for them to take all the boots to the only place in Bandung that has a Rapid machine, than to stitch it by hand in their workshop...

Yes, many of the poor village Italian makers in the 1950's couldn't afford machinery so they continued to stitch all the shoes by hand because it was cheaper. Rich people got their shoes made by machine in the cities while the poor people bought handmade shoes in the village (nearly everyone wanted machine made shoes in those days).

One of the first generation Chinese handmade shoes in the 90's (Malboro handmades) also used to hand welt their shoes because they couldn't afford the machinery either. Terrible shoes.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

I am not sure if it’s still the case, but in the past you could ask Vass to stich the rubber sole by hand. I have one MTO pair of boots in which they agreed to do that but it was in 2017.

They switched to only do it at the toe.

 

[florent]

For handstitching rubber soles, a special awl with a groove can be used, it allows to pass the bristle through the sole while leaving the awl in place. An example can be seen here on @w.efelaborde Shoemakers Toolmakers eshop.
A lockstitch can also be done by hand through rubber with a hook needle.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Looks like someone has photo shopped a Berluti bespoke and selling it on ebay as one of their own shoes.
Look.

(the real version)


The photo shopped version they are trying to sell from Pakistan.


Have a look at all the shoes he is selling,
it is full of surprises.

Bespoke Handmade Red Patina Shaded Crocodile Skin Leather Oxford Wholecut Shoes | eBay

Fully leather lined with leather upper, leather sole and leather heels. All our footwear is thoroughly inspected and any imperfections noted. This ensures what you receive is exactly what you have seen in our images.

www.ebay.com.au

 

[DorianGreen]

Oxford in burgundy pigskin by Jim McCormack.

 

[DorianGreen]

Looks like someone has photo shopped a Berluti bespoke and selling it on ebay as one of their own shoes.
Look.

(the real version)
View attachment 2231509

The photo shopped version they are trying to sell from Pakistan.
View attachment 2231511

Have a look at all the shoes he is selling,
it is full of surprises.

Bespoke Handmade Red Patina Shaded Crocodile Skin Leather Oxford Wholecut Shoes | eBay

Fully leather lined with leather upper, leather sole and leather heels. All our footwear is thoroughly inspected and any imperfections noted. This ensures what you receive is exactly what you have seen in our images.

www.ebay.com.au

At $350 it can't be a bespoke handmade shoe, of course.

It wouldn't be interesting for me, even though it were authentic. I really don't like those heavy, fancy patinas.

 

[DorianGreen]

A lovely "mocassino" (Italian for loafer) in shrunken calf (also known as Lama) by Calzoleria Carlino.

Those narrow heels should be perfect for my feet.

 

[bengal-stripe]

A lovely "mocassino" (Italian for loafer) in shrunken calf (also known as Lama) by Calzoleria Carlino.

Llama is a leather in it's own right and is distinct from shrunken or embossed calf. (I wouldn't know, but Italians might use the word 'Llama' casually for any textured leather.)

The South American llama belongs to the camel-family and just like camel leather has it's natural texture, which, when lasted over the toe and heel area of a shoe. does not get flattened from stretching

Here is a discussion from SF some eleven years ago:

Is there a name for this type of textured leather...

Is there a name for this type of textured (for the lack of a better descriptor) leather...thank you.

www.styleforum.net

I did mention in this thread some llama leather which yours truly had bought from a German eBay seller of leather remnants, but, at that time, hadn't received them yet. Here is a picture, taken today, of the 'Austerity Brogue' the leather was turned into. Note the toe without the texture having been pulled out.

 

[Texasmade]

I've noticed that a lot of the Japanese makers use llama skin in their shoes. Doesn't seem to really be a thing for French or English makers.

 

[Riccardo Carlino]

Most of the shoes that get seen around and are named “Lama” are actually shrunken calf.
The name lama leather has been incorrectly used for so many years mostly due to the agency or tannery selling it under wrong name.
Most of the shoemakers would struggle to recognize a real lama from an embossed calf.

Il try to upoload a picture of a real lama skin size/shape . Maybe this could be useful for some of the readers here.

The shoes attached instead it’s actually “fake” lama , shrunken calf .

I've noticed that a lot of the Japanese makers use llama skin in their shoes. Doesn't seem to really be a thing for French or English makers.

 

[Texasmade]

Most of the shoes that get seen around and are named “Lama” are actually shrunken calf.
The name lama leather has been incorrectly used for so many years mostly due to the agency or tannery selling it under wrong name.
Most of the shoemakers would struggle to recognize a real lama from an embossed calf.

Il try to upoload a picture of a real lama skin size/shape . Maybe this could be useful for some of the readers here.

The shoes attached instead it’s actually “fake” lama , shrunken calf .

All this time I thought it was actual llama.

Examples of llama I've seen on IG.
Akiratani's llama is actually shrunken calf?

Same with Perticone (Japanese maker in Italy)?