The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[j ingevaldsson]

In a way we are saying the same thing. What you describe about Berluti is the expense of marketing a luxury good. My point was if you are a luxury good, people are going to expect robotic objective perfection. As far as the wages go, I will say that the $60/hour you described is 1.5x (or more) what most prosecuting attorneys get (and they also work many uncompensated hours), so I would consider that no longer a workman's wage (I'm not ignoring that you referenced expenses coming out of that, except for the taxes all regular people pay and salary-earners pay without any deductions, but I don't think $60/hr carries the expected shock value).

I'm sorry, but no, we don't say the same thing at all. TBH, it's clear that you don't understand, despite me and many others trying to explain things the best we can for you.

As stated by others, billing rate and wage is two very different things. Good luck finding a decent attorney that bills you $60 an hour... On top of that, bespoke shoemaking can be considered to be both a service and production, which is one of the reasons it's extra difficult to make good money of it.

Since these things seems hard for you to grasp, I would recommend you to reach out to a shoemaker and talk to them, maybe that can make you understand things better

 

[jonathanS]

I’m not sure if it’s a lack of understanding from people whose experience with handmade or bespoke products starts and ends with what they’ve read on a forum or seen on instagram or if it’s because they value different things or what

I think there’s a combination of things going on here. But I also think there are people who watch way too much mark Cho or Simon crompton and believe they’re experts. They literally sounds like a marketing pamphlet for liverano or (insert well known tailor’s name). But more power to them.

 

[jonathanS]

what most prosecuting attorneys get (and they also work many uncompensated hours)

As a prosecuting attorney, we are paid the worst. That’s true, but we aren’t doing it for the money. So….. that’s where your argument falls apart. Also you cannot hire us, we work for the government, which I suppose means we work for the public. And, I also think you’re not calculating government benefits into our wages. Anyways, we aren’t the benchmark for attorney wages. Hire a private defense attorney to go up against us. It’ll start at 5k for a misdemeanor - battery, domestic violence, dui, etc. Minimum 5k. And go up from there. And if you have to go to trial, good luck. If you have a felony, I wish you well finding someone to work for 60/hour hahaha

 

[Son Of Saphir]

A stunning Balmoral by Yohei Fukuda. His creations evoke a sense of perfection.

View attachment 2227277

Wow, just wow.

 

[Dalaruan]

Think yourself lucky you fit in rtw, you are saving yourself a fortune.
How many bespoke addicts have blown their retirement savings due to addiction.
If you are happy with all the stuff you have, you are well ahead of the game.

for 99% people RTW are at least tolerable. it's difficult to imagine how much better bespoke will be
probably best stay away from the rabbit hole lol

 

[Texasmade]

As a prosecuting attorney, we are paid the worst. That’s true, but we aren’t doing it for the money. So….. that’s where your argument falls apart. Also you cannot hire us, we work for the government, which I suppose means we work for the public. And, I also think you’re not calculating government benefits into our wages. Anyways, we aren’t the benchmark for attorney wages. Hire a private defense attorney to go up against us. It’ll start at 5k for a misdemeanor - battery, domestic violence, dui, etc. Minimum 5k. And go up from there. And if you have to go to trial, good luck. If you have a felony, I wish you well finding someone to work for 60/hour hahaha

When I worked in big 4 public accounting as a manager, my bill rate was like $350/hr. My all in wage rate with benefits was probably like $100/hr.

 

[jonathanS]

When I worked in big 4 public accounting as a manager, my bill rate was like $350/hr. My all in wage rate with benefits was probably like $100/hr.

🤷🏻‍♂️. I’m overworked and underpaid. Ive just accepted this.

 

[epsilon22]

There’s an old saying that “the loudest boo’s come from the cheap seats” and the more time I spend on SF seeing people talk about bespoke shoes/tailoring/shirts the more this rings true.

I’m not sure if it’s a lack of understanding from people whose experience with handmade or bespoke products starts and ends with what they’ve read on a forum or seen on instagram or if it’s because they value different things or what.

It’s interesting to hear from the makers standpoint but I’ll also offer some things from the customer standpoint.

First and foremost, I really enjoy the process of bespoke. Maybe more than I enjoy the final product. Going through swatches, tracking down a vintage length of fabric, finding a cool piece of leather, etc. Having a discussion with the maker about what we can make from it, seeing their process. It’s cliche but the whole thing is a journey. I also really enjoy the relationships I’ve developed with my makers, the messages we exchange, getting to know them and their families, meals shared. In a world of being able to buy something off a website and have it the next day there’s still something special about getting to find a person who is passionate about what they do, get to know them and get to support their work all while I get some cool stuff that fits well and looks good.

All that being said I still have standards but my order falls something like fit, make, materials, finishing. It feels like the plot has been lost when people are critiquing their pair of Allen Edmonds they got half off or their Spier shirt more critically than I’ve ever looked at a commission.

If someone is after perfection and want the ability to return something I can highly recommend ACME, Yohei Fukuda and Gaziano Girling for consistently putting out really clean RTW work but if you’re after something more, the bespoke process has so much more to offer than counting stitch density and you even get some cool stuff that’ll fit you pretty well at the end too.

I largely agree with you, I don't even know what the stitch density on my MTO/MTM (and upcoming bespoke) pairs are, never specified them as I assumed the shoemaker would pick what's appropriate for the designs.

That said, I still think uneven stitches would bother me though, especially at the scale shown in that Norwegian welted pair a couple of pages back. But I'm not familiar with that style, so maybe uneven stitches would be the norm for that style, and I'd best avoid it. I'm also judging based on like two photos on the internet, maybe they're not nearly as obvious in person, I don't know.

 

[othertravel]

The economics are of it are interesting. So at the top end, what would a bespoke maker make annually?

 

[jazznpool]

The economics are of it are interesting. So at the top end, what would a bespoke maker make annually?

I sure hope the better bespoke makers can be successful and make a decent living, otherwise bespoke shoes would not be available. I don’t need to know or care what anyone earns.

 

[DorianGreen]

Tassel loafer by Akira Tani.

 

[DorianGreen]

Adelaide by Perticone.

 

[DorianGreen]

Split toe derby boot by Hiro Yanagimachi.

 

[DorianGreen]

An interesting model called "Pipa" (Italian for pipe, referring to the facing's shape) by Calzoleria Carlino. It's a "reverse Adelaide", as the facing sits on the top.

 

[DorianGreen]

A pair of Perticone before polishing. I love the matte finish on the hatch grain leather.