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jonathanS

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or more like you just have to get now and be ready to get later :p
I think, the move is to develop a relationship where it’s worth it to the maker to relast if necessary.
 

j ingevaldsson

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First of all there's consensus around what the OP should have done, and I don't disagree with it. Second of all my conclusions were based on observing my own experience and others' accounts of numerous instances where bespoke shoemakers overpromised and underdelivered.

I see there's been much faffing about over what fit perfection is, which I never claimed was my expectation for the first order. So how about this minimally viable condition: the shoes must not hurt or cause the customer any pain? While it seems a low bar, I think an unacceptably high number of bespoke 1st orders don't clear it.

Based on this definition of failure, let's just say a typical bespoke house fails 10% of first orders. Some might argue that's pretty good, but would a restaurant stay in business if 10% of customers throw up the meal? Or if 1 in 10 chairs in a furniture store can't support human weight, and send the customer's rear crashing to the floor?



It's just a fact of (internet?) life that a non-BS negative review is likely to be more detail-oriented, and made by a more thoughtful (or you could say picky) person. Compared to the typical positive review which is not more than "Great!", "I love it", etc. People are psychologically inclined to validate their own purchase decisions with rose-tinted glasses, and in the West they are socially conditioned that "if they don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all". Conversely in order for a negative argument to stick the author needs to array all the facts and logic at his disposal against voices waiting to dismiss him as a whiner, Debbie Downer, party pooper, etc. etc.

As I've tried to describe, sure, probably 10% of first bespoke pairs end up badly, BUT, in most of those cases they would be remade or otherwise fixed so that the customer is satisfied. Again, always exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

On the second paragraph, I assumed it would be something like this, your "gut feeling", if you'd have something proper to back it up with you wouldn't start off with "it's just a fact of (internet?) life" 😊 A bit funny also that part of your argument actually do point to what I stated, that when it comes to whom are making its voice heard the most and whom state their stance (exaggerate...) the most are those with a negative experience. If you'd want to learn more actual facts on this you can find plenty of scientific research covering it.
 

j ingevaldsson

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I think, the move is to develop a relationship where it’s worth it to the maker to relast if necessary.

Yup, my feet has changed too from when I got some of my first bespoke pairs, due to running a lot during a couple of years, gaining weight and aging. So I have had a few pairs relasted onto my updated lasts. RTW pairs from that time I've had to sell, can't modify them to the same degree.
 

jonathanS

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Yup, my feet has changed too from when I got some of my first bespoke pairs, due to running a lot during a couple of years, gaining weight and aging. So I have had a few pairs relasted onto my updated lasts. RTW pairs from that time I've had to sell, can't modify them to the same degree.
I always wondered this: in theory, could I take an old rtw, that needs a new role, resole it with my last, and improve the fit? I’d imagine there are limits to what can be done.
 

epsilon22

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I always wondered this: in theory, could I take an old rtw, that needs a new role, resole it with my last, and improve the fit? I’d imagine there are limits to what can be done.
I recall reading somewhere (likely this forum) that some RTW makers are able (and willing) to relast down half size when you send your shoes for resole. Not sure if sizing up is possible though, maybe by stretching?

Nicholas did mention that if I get minor adjustments made to my lasts for my 2nd/subsequent pairs, the first pair will also be relasted on the updated lasts when I send them for resoling. So I guess to some extent what you're suggesting is possible.
 

aristoi bcn

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IMG_0563.jpeg
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IMG_0579.jpeg
 

TimothyF

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On the second paragraph, I assumed it would be something like this, your "gut feeling", if you'd have something proper to back it up with you wouldn't start off with "it's just a fact of (internet?) life" 😊 A bit funny also that part of your argument actually do point to what I stated, that when it comes to whom are making its voice heard the most and whom state their stance (exaggerate...) the most are those with a negative experience.

You conveniently ignored what I wrote about positivity bias that pervades our society. What I said very clearly is that negative reviews need to pass the BS filters of an educated audience, and to do this they need to present lots of evidence and sound reasoning. Positive reviews often lack the former, forgo the latter, and have equally sizable portion of BSers such as shills, undiscerning positive people, people rationalizing their purchase decisions etc.

If you'd want to learn more actual facts on this you can find plenty of scientific research covering it.

You sound like a business owner (henchman?) who hates negative reviewers with the fire of a thousand suns. I love how you think you get to win an argument automatically by waving the word "science" around :crackup:
 

tim_horton

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So you’re saying don’t get bespoke shoes when I’m young? Ugh oh. I was talking to Lee miller, the Texas cowboy bootmaker and he mentioned that overtime people lose fat in their feet (their feet becomes more bone-y) and they start to feet the fit of their shoes more.
I think it's a combination of that and also the ligaments stretching out over time, causing the foot to get wider. But the difference between pre- and post-marathon was so obvious I was surprised. I had already made an appointment for a bespoke fitting but I'm glad I made it for after the run and not before.
 

j ingevaldsson

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I always wondered this: in theory, could I take an old rtw, that needs a new role, resole it with my last, and improve the fit? I’d imagine there are limits to what can be done.

Not sure I follow what you mean exactly. You're thinking taking a RTW shoe and resole it on a bespoke last? If so, those RTW lasts would have to be very similar to your bespoke lasts for the pattern to work out well, so much so that the RTW would have to fit you so well that it wouldn't be worth it for that small improvement. Sort of.

As others have mentioned, resole a RTW model to half a size smaller (maybe larger, but depends on if there's enough lasting allowance to be had) at the factory works, and resole bespoke on updated lasts works as well (again, as long as it's not been enlarged too much).

You conveniently ignored what I wrote about positivity bias that pervades our society. What I said very clearly is that negative reviews need to pass the BS filters of an educated audience, and to do this they need to present lots of evidence and sound reasoning. Positive reviews often lack the former, forgo the latter, and have equally sizable portion of BSers such as shills, undiscerning positive people, people rationalizing their purchase decisions etc.



You sound like a business owner (henchman?) who hates negative reviewers with the fire of a thousand suns. I love how you think you get to win an argument automatically by waving the word "science" around :crackup:

And I love how you think you get to win an argument just by bashing the use of science... 😉
 

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