The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[dauster]

I haven't posted in a while because, frankly, I have very few updates. I attempted to return my pair of GC alligator oxfords earlier this year when they visited on a trunk show, but GC just sent them back via FedEx. I had also returned the reindeer leather loafers earlier this year as well and GC still has them. GC told me that they need to remeasure my feet because something is not right with the fit, which is fair. The alligator oxfords probably need to be heavily redone as well.

The pandemic has made fixing the issues a challenge because of the need to remeasure me and remake at least one pair of my shoes. Making the issue more challenging is that GC keeps sending GG Jr, who is not suited to measuring - and, honestly, I'd rather not deal with him. GC have said that they couldn't send Adam Law to the US because of visa issues even as others from the UK (and those without US passports) have done trunk shows.

So, all told, it's about $15k for one pair that's still sitting in a box here - waiting for an opportunity to have a proper last-maker check the fit, and another pair that's still back in the UK. Even if I wind up with two pairs of shoes that fit -- and who knows how long it may take to get them -- the experience has been woeful. The leather on the alligator shoes is better than it was when they first gave it to me, but it's still less than the quality of RTW that I can see walking through a Neiman Marcus store. The experience was also a total bust.

I'm excited for my pair of Templeman shoes, at least, and have confidence that the experience is going to be great!

damn sounds horrible. im guessing at this point amex/ visa is not going to grant you a chargeback... did you already pay the full amount for the shoes ?

 

[shackletonian]

damn sounds horrible. im guessing at this point amex/ visa is not going to grant you a chargeback... did you already pay the full amount for the shoes ?

Thanks for asking. I paid in full some time ago - there was an issue that I was charged more than initially quoted for price. I asked for a billing summary after the fact and received the internal document, not what I would have expected as a customer, which led to more confusion. When I reached out to my credit card company, I was out of luck. When I explained to George Jr that I was frustrated and wanted a refund and to be done with the process, tired of the many iterations of this and poor leather quality, he claimed that I was all about the money.

To be up-front, had the shoes just had a fit issue, it would have been understandable. The straw for me was the quality of the alligator leather. It was insultingly bad and destroyed my confidence in the entire process with them. The money issue was that I had bought a pair of Anthony Cleverley in shop in the size that a different AC model had fit me (but not trying them on). When I received them later by mail, I tried them on and they were like boats on my feet and not even close to fitting. So, I returned them for credit, which I intended to use for a bespoke pair -- and to avoid more fit issues with other pairs of AC shoes (the first pair I got fit so well that I kept hoping that the others would fit, but it seems to be an aberration).

Prior to my fitting, I asked about a pair of their suede, rubber-sole loafers. George Jr kindly offered them without the 'MTO fee' of a few hundred dollars, and I accepted it. They are actually very tight and small on me, but I didn't say anything about it to them or complain. I also commissioned a blue alligator long wallet from them (with MTO fee), which turned out very well. So, George Jr's comment about the money and complaints from me seemed rather misplaced, but there it is. At any rate, I'm rather at the mercy of GJC. I've actually considered just accepting the shoes and taking them to another maker at some point, paying some fee to have them reshaped or adjusted for me, but I know that that would be stupid and not worthwhile. I'd rather not throw any more money at them and figure that it is just a painful sunk cost.

 

[clee1982]

you can't get money back but couldn't you just complain enough to get at least get a "fit" wearable shoe (leather quality different story), and shouldn't need to pay a dime, their problem they need to fix.

 

[dauster]

Thanks for asking. I paid in full some time ago - there was an issue that I was charged more than initially quoted for price. I asked for a billing summary after the fact and received the internal document, not what I would have expected as a customer, which led to more confusion. When I reached out to my credit card company, I was out of luck. When I explained to George Jr that I was frustrated and wanted a refund and to be done with the process, tired of the many iterations of this and poor leather quality, he claimed that I was all about the money.

To be up-front, had the shoes just had a fit issue, it would have been understandable. The straw for me was the quality of the alligator leather. It was insultingly bad and destroyed my confidence in the entire process with them. The money issue was that I had bought a pair of Anthony Cleverley in shop in the size that a different AC model had fit me (but not trying them on). When I received them later by mail, I tried them on and they were like boats on my feet and not even close to fitting. So, I returned them for credit, which I intended to use for a bespoke pair -- and to avoid more fit issues with other pairs of AC shoes (the first pair I got fit so well that I kept hoping that the others would fit, but it seems to be an aberration).

Prior to my fitting, I asked about a pair of their suede, rubber-sole loafers. George Jr kindly offered them without the 'MTO fee' of a few hundred dollars, and I accepted it. They are actually very tight and small on me, but I didn't say anything about it to them or complain. I also commissioned a blue alligator long wallet from them (with MTO fee), which turned out very well. So, George Jr's comment about the money and complaints from me seemed rather misplaced, but there it is. At any rate, I'm rather at the mercy of GJC. I've actually considered just accepting the shoes and taking them to another maker at some point, paying some fee to have them reshaped or adjusted for me, but I know that that would be stupid and not worthwhile. I'd rather not throw any more money at them and figure that it is just a painful sunk cost.

jesus, I really feel for you. I just read about @RJman (in his new book swan song) successful attempt of "remaking" a pair of bespoke shoes made for someone else by anthony delos (who now works for berluti). apparently he breathed fresh life into an old pair so it can be done.

I am guessing that you are not hurting for money given the high price of the commission but regardless I would demand the shoes to be made right and just wait until your feet can be remeasured. why not go to the actual shop in london when you are over there.

 

[shackletonian]

jesus, I really feel for you. I just read about @RJman (in his new book swan song) successful attempt of "remaking" a pair of bespoke shoes made for someone else by anthony delos (who now works for berluti). apparently he breathed fresh life into an old pair so it can be done.

I am guessing that you are not hurting for money given the high price of the commission but regardless I would demand the shoes to be made right and just wait until your feet can be remeasured. why not go to the actual shop in london when you are over there.

That’s reassuring that such work can be done, though I’d also not like to let them off the hook. They do guarantee fit, as they say, but maybe they are less on quality control for the material.

The cost actually did hurt. It was a huge cost for me and I had saved up for them over two years. I had decided that that was going to be sort of a big year for me, and didn’t think I’d have a huge window for the reindeer leather or that alligator, which had beautiful color. I obviously can afford what I paid, but, in a sense, I’ve sort of eaten a huge loss… which was about 60% of what my partner’s income was… so it was rather devastating to her to see that kind of money gone for such a disappointing result.

 

[dauster]

That’s reassuring that such work can be done, though I’d also not like to let them off the hook. They do guarantee fit, as they say, but maybe they are less on quality control for the material.

The cost actually did hurt. It was a huge cost for me and I had saved up for them over two years. I had decided that that was going to be sort of a big year for me, and didn’t think I’d have a huge window for the reindeer leather or that alligator, which had beautiful color. I obviously can afford what I paid, but, in a sense, I’ve sort of eaten a huge loss… which was about 60% of what my partner’s income was… so it was rather devastating to her to see that kind of money gone for such a disappointing result.

jesus ok that's even worse - I am definitely not one to judge when it comes to ridiculously high priced shopping but that hurts but I also gotta question why buy shoes that make up 60% of your partners income? any way doesn't help you now and good luck to you.

 

[dieworkwear]

Honestly makes me angry. What a horrible experience. I haven't been this annoyed with a maker since Drew at Temple of Jawnz, a custom leather jacket company on the SWD board, ran away with literally $250,000 worth of people's money back in the day.

It's crazy to me that GJC gets away with this sort of thing. It was only after my terrible experience when I heard all the horror stories come out of the woodwork, and I wish there were more honest accounts online. After my terrible experience, I heard from people in the trade and former customers who talked about their bad experiences. Absolutely crazy to me that they charge this much for shoes and have such a great reputation given the reality.

Unfortunately, I know from experience with ToJ that you simply can't get your money back. During that debacle, I talked to multiple law firms and financial institutions. Basically, you can get your money back in normal situations where you order a ready-made product. If someone doesn't send it, or they ship the wrong thing, you can file a chargeback if you have good relations with your creditor.

But with any kind of custom-made good, you are probably looking at a lead time of longer than six months, which puts you outside of the protection window. This is especially true of bespoke goods. Anderson & Sheppard visits San Francisco once a year; bespoke shoemakers are often twice a year. This protection window doesn't even cover you between fittings. By the time you receive the finished product (sometimes you don't at all), you are so far outside of the protection window, the credit agency can't do anything even if they want to give you a break.

It has been said before, but I appreciate Shack being so honest about his bad experience. GJC stands alone in terms of the number of crazy stories I've heard, but I've also heard some crazy stories about other bespoke makers from frustrated customers. Many people don't want to be made to look like fools online, or they excuse bad work from a maker for various reasons. So you only end up hearing these stories over dinner and drinks. Someone recently sent me a photo of themselves in a coat made by a big Savile Row firm. Looked so horrible, I felt crushed for the guy. (I obviously don't have permission to post his photo online, but trust me when I say it looked worse than a hacked-up vintage thrift find).

I hope Shack's situation gets sorted out. I think in every bespoke commission, you have to be willing for things to go awry, but this situation seems beyond the normal scope of what's reasonable. I assume GJC would save themselves time and money by just refunding the cost and moving on.

 

[corpseposeur]

Thanks for asking. I paid in full some time ago - there was an issue that I was charged more than initially quoted for price. I asked for a billing summary after the fact and received the internal document, not what I would have expected as a customer, which led to more confusion. When I reached out to my credit card company, I was out of luck. When I explained to George Jr that I was frustrated and wanted a refund and to be done with the process, tired of the many iterations of this and poor leather quality, he claimed that I was all about the money.

To be up-front, had the shoes just had a fit issue, it would have been understandable. The straw for me was the quality of the alligator leather. It was insultingly bad and destroyed my confidence in the entire process with them. The money issue was that I had bought a pair of Anthony Cleverley in shop in the size that a different AC model had fit me (but not trying them on). When I received them later by mail, I tried them on and they were like boats on my feet and not even close to fitting. So, I returned them for credit, which I intended to use for a bespoke pair -- and to avoid more fit issues with other pairs of AC shoes (the first pair I got fit so well that I kept hoping that the others would fit, but it seems to be an aberration).

Prior to my fitting, I asked about a pair of their suede, rubber-sole loafers. George Jr kindly offered them without the 'MTO fee' of a few hundred dollars, and I accepted it. They are actually very tight and small on me, but I didn't say anything about it to them or complain. I also commissioned a blue alligator long wallet from them (with MTO fee), which turned out very well. So, George Jr's comment about the money and complaints from me seemed rather misplaced, but there it is. At any rate, I'm rather at the mercy of GJC. I've actually considered just accepting the shoes and taking them to another maker at some point, paying some fee to have them reshaped or adjusted for me, but I know that that would be stupid and not worthwhile. I'd rather not throw any more money at them and figure that it is just a painful sunk cost.

This is ridiculous.

I was considering GC for a Anthony Cleverley pair before reading some of the comments and experiences here.

I ended up ordering a MTO pair from Acme shoes. I'll report back here when I receive them but my email interactions with them have been great. I've sent Oliver a lot of emails about a lot of minute details and points to try to be as communicative as possible and he's been very forthright.

I've also had excellent interactions from Gaziano & Girling and Paul Sargent Shoes when I enquired about their MTO offerings.

This is my first MTO shoes so I am a bit nervous but even if it doesn't work out, clearly going to a "bespoke heritage British maker" may not result in a better experience.

 

[clee1982]

I think GC is just special...

edit: like special flower kind of special...

 

[Texasmade]

Honestly makes me angry. What a horrible experience. I haven't been this annoyed with a maker since Drew at Temple of Jawnz, a custom leather jacket company on the SWD board, ran away with literally $250,000 worth of people's money back in the day.

It's crazy to me that GJC gets away with this sort of thing. It was only after my terrible experience when I heard all the horror stories come out of the woodwork, and I wish there were more honest accounts online. After my terrible experience, I heard from people in the trade and former customers who talked about their bad experiences. Absolutely crazy to me that they charge this much for shoes and have such a great reputation given the reality.

Unfortunately, I know from experience with ToJ that you simply can't get your money back. During that debacle, I talked to multiple law firms and financial institutions. Basically, you can get your money back in normal situations where you order a ready-made product. If someone doesn't send it, or they ship the wrong thing, you can file a chargeback if you have good relations with your creditor.

But with any kind of custom-made good, you are probably looking at a lead time of longer than six months, which puts you outside of the protection window. This is especially true of bespoke goods. Anderson & Sheppard visits San Francisco once a year; bespoke shoemakers are often twice a year. This protection window doesn't even cover you between fittings. By the time you receive the finished product (sometimes you don't at all), you are so far outside of the protection window, the credit agency can't do anything even if they want to give you a break.

It has been said before, but I appreciate Shack being so honest about his bad experience. GJC stands alone in terms of the number of crazy stories I've heard, but I've also heard some crazy stories about other bespoke makers from frustrated customers. Many people don't want to be made to look like fools online, or they excuse bad work from a maker for various reasons. So you only end up hearing these stories over dinner and drinks. Someone recently sent me a photo of themselves in a coat made by a big Savile Row firm. Looked so horrible, I felt crushed for the guy. (I obviously don't have permission to post his photo online, but trust me when I say it looked worse than a hacked-up vintage thrift find).

I hope Shack's situation gets sorted out. I think in every bespoke commission, you have to be willing for things to go awry, but this situation seems beyond the normal scope of what's reasonable. I assume GJC would save themselves time and money by just refunding the cost and moving on.

Shack's story, along with your experience, you pointing out issues with Kirby Allison's shoes, and Jesper from Shoegazing really saved me from the same mistake. I considered trying out GJC at one point but after hearing so many issues with the shoes along with the terrible customer service, I'm glad I never did.

 

[marlinspike]

My experience is the more the online hype the more likely you are to get scammed by the guy, a lesson you learn once but not twice.

 

[dauster]

My experience is the more the online hype the more likely you are to get scammed by the guy, a lesson you learn once but not twice.

lol I have heard this before but how would they know if I am on styleforum/ or like shoes on IG or not ? so they don't like detail oriented bespoke customers that re in their 30s? I still dont understand their business model. this has to backfire at some point. I truly dont understand it.

edit: maybe I misunderstood you post but let's be honest is there online hype around them? senior was in a xmas movie and they post pics of stallone, staham and superman guy but is that considered hype ?

 

[Texasmade]

lol I have heard this before but how would they know if I am on styleforum/ or like shoes on IG or not ? so they don't like detail oriented bespoke customers that re in their 30s? I still dont understand their business model. this has to backfire at some point. I truly dont understand it.

edit: maybe I misunderstood you post but let's be honest is there online hype around them? senior was in a xmas movie and they post pics of stallone, staham and superman guy but is that considered hype ?

Don't forget Jr had some article where he talked about wearing his Nautilus 5711,

 

[corpseposeur]

My experience is the more the online hype the more likely you are to get scammed by the guy, a lesson you learn once but not twice.

I will add that the more someone is trying to sell you a "luxury lifestyle" like a sleazy car salesman the more BS is forthcoming with an actual thing you want made.

I expect from a bespoke maker is someone that listens to my needs and gives me a solution to my problem whether its shoes or tailoring or whatever. Sometimes it might not work out for a variety of reasons; cost, aesthetics, or whatever, but just having someone that listens and makes it right when things go wrong is a baseline expectation. Otherwise, I might as well get a pair Allen Edmonds and avoid the hassle.

 

[marlinspike]

lol I have heard this before but how would they know if I am on styleforum/ or like shoes on IG or not ? so they don't like detail oriented bespoke customers that re in their 30s? I still dont understand their business model. this has to backfire at some point. I truly dont understand it.

edit: maybe I misunderstood you post but let's be honest is there online hype around them? senior was in a xmas movie and they post pics of stallone, staham and superman guy but is that considered hype ?

I feel like GC used to get forum hype. The guy the forums said was the best Mercedes engine tuner and the guy the forums said was the best transmission builder both ripped me off (to be fair the transmission guy lost his mind, but the engine guy was just a scammer). Now I don't trust anything I don't know for myself.