The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[chogall]



What I meant was: I imagine you should just answer the fitter's questions.

@chogall's advice in the other thread sounded like it involves a bunch of independent checks and exercises, and then being very insistent about changes (even if the shoemaker disagrees). That sounds like a really bad idea to me.

I guess you've not heard stories where bespoke shoes "fits" according to fitter/maker but too painful to wear by customer, or how they "fit" well in store but too painful to wear to walk.

Fit is very personal and is a collaboration between customer and fitter. Eventually how well a pair fits is determined by the customer, not the shoemaker.

After all, some makers do ask how you want your shoes to fit when you place order; loose, snug, or tight.

 

[dieworkwear]



I guess you've not heard stories where bespoke shoes "fits" according to fitter/maker but too painful to wear by customer, or how they "fit" well in store but too painful to wear to walk.

Fit is very personal and is a collaboration between customer and fitter. Eventually how well a pair fits is determined by the customer, not the shoemaker.

After all, some makers do ask how you want your shoes to fit when you place order; loose, snug, or tight.

Would you really pace around the room for 10+ minutes to get the leather "warmed and softened?" And can that process be sped up by dancing?

As for shoes that are too painful to walk in at the end, I just assume the maker will take them back and relast them if necessary. Just like how I assume a tailor will take a jacket back and make adjustments if needed. For suits and sport coats, I only really know how I feel about a garment after I've worn it for a few months, so I use that time to figure out whether I want small adjustments. The fittings are still usually for the tailor.

 

[chogall]

Would you really pace around the room for 10+ minutes to get the leather "warmed and softened?" And can that process be sped up by dancing?

I dont have experiences w/ in-welt fitting so YMMV. Breakdancing needed for keyboard warriors trying to be funny.

 

[poorsod]

IME shoes feel a lot different with the sole than without. I have had multiple experiences where the shoe felt fine at the fitting stage but either too tight or too loose after completion. It's really important to be able to make adjusments after the shoe has been made.

 

[Griffindork]

I found the cleverly-style heel-less fitting to give me almost no basis for which I could give feedback to the maker about fit. The trial shoe is so far from an actual show that it was meaningless to me. That being said, the shoes turned out well. For those fittings where I've been given an actual shoe with a heel, I've found that I can give useful feedbackl along the lines of "this is too tight" or "I'd like a closer fit here." Anything more than that and I'm in the shoemaker's hands and, as Dieworkwear said, counting upon them to make it right at the end of the day even if it takes a while to get there.

 

[chogall]

IME shoes feel a lot different with the sole than without. I have had multiple experiences where the shoe felt fine at the fitting stage but either too tight or too loose after completion. It's really important to be able to make adjusments after the shoe has been made.

Same for trial shoes; they do feel different than the actual finished shoes due to the lack of stiffeners and sole.

Being able to make adjustments after the shoes done is essential, at least for me.

I found the cleverly-style heel-less fitting to give me almost no basis for which I could give feedback to the maker about fit. The trial shoe is so far from an actual show that it was meaningless to me. That being said, the shoes turned out well. For those fittings where I've been given an actual shoe with a heel, I've found that I can give useful feedbackl along the lines of "this is too tight" or "I'd like a closer fit here." Anything more than that and I'm in the shoemaker's hands and, as Dieworkwear said, counting upon them to make it right at the end of the day even if it takes a while to get there.

The question is, for trial shoes fittings specifically, how long did you wear the shoes to be able to provide useful feedback?

@DWFII suggests first impression within a few minutes, so thats 3-4 minutes.

Some UK shoemakers schedules in 30min or 1 hour meetings, so that's about 30min to an hour of in-welt trials.

The French maker I've used is pretty flexible though I did not request them to send trial shoes to my place ahead of fitting.

Some Japanese shoemakers recommend a few days to weeks.

 

[chogall]

Would you really pace around the room for 10+ minutes to get the leather "warmed and softened?" And can that process be sped up by dancing?

As for shoes that are too painful to walk in at the end, I just assume the maker will take them back and relast them if necessary. Just like how I assume a tailor will take a jacket back and make adjustments if needed. For suits and sport coats, I only really know how I feel about a garment after I've worn it for a few months, so I use that time to figure out whether I want small adjustments. The fittings are still usually for the tailor.

You should absolutely dance in them if you plan to use them for dancing. And dancing in them will help tremendously for your snarky comments. Great Youtube material for your blog.

Sure, makers could relast/reblock the shoes, but its always better to catch problems earlier than later.

 

[Griffindork]



The question is, for trial shoes fittings specifically, how long did you wear the shoes to be able to provide useful feedback?

@DWFII
suggests first impression within a few minutes, so thats 3-4 minutes.

Some UK shoemakers schedules in 30min or 1 hour meetings, so that's about 30min to an hour of in-welt trials.

The French maker I've used is pretty flexible though I did not request them to send trial shoes to my place ahead of fitting.

Some Japanese shoemakers recommend a few days to weeks.

Cleverley - 5 minutes
Lobb Paris - 20 minutes
Koji Suzuki - 5 minutes
Gaziano & Girling - 14 months

 

[poorsod]

14 months with G&G? Was it Daniel Wegan who was fitting you? For me, the process was different with Tony and Dean.

 

[DWFII]



Cleverley - 5 minutes
Lobb Paris - 20 minutes
Koji Suzuki - 5 minutes
Gaziano & Girling - 14 months

Sometimes I take up to 45 minutes with a trial fitting. But it is in the first several minutes that the most useful impressions are gathered. Unless the trial shoe is, in fact, simply a temporary closing of the actual upper leather of the shoe, the leather used for the fitter's model will seldom be of the quality of the final shoe.

So wearing and walking it around for ten minutes is spurious. The leather of the fitter's model, being of marginal quality, will loosen with the heat and moisture from the foot. If that loosening hasn't happened within several minutes...to the point of comfort...it is a good indication that better leather and better structure isn't going to loosen enough in the final shoe to make them comfortable any time soon.

If the fit isn't good enough for almost immediate comfort, are you, as a bespoke customer, going to wait...going to want to suffer...until it does get comfortable?

 

[venividivicibj]

Cleverley - 5 minutes
Lobb Paris - 20 minutes
Koji Suzuki - 5 minutes
Gaziano & Girling - 14 months

Mecarriello about 1 month. (his 'test' shoes are also basically real GYW shoes though, not typical test shoe quality)

 

[DWFII]

I'm not sure what the 14 months refers to...??? If the trial shoe will loosen up in a couple of minutes...and it usually will...and conform to the foot, what is being tested in 14 months?

Whether the shoe will conform to the foot or foot to the shoe?

 

[dopey]

^I think he is just noting how long it was from when the trial shoe was delivered to him to when he next saw them.

 

[DWFII]



^I think he is just noting how long it was from when the trial shoe was delivered to him to when he next saw them.

Thank you. I kind of figured that but wasn't sure. That makes more sense even if it's not particularly relevant.

 

[Griffindork]

^ sorry, bad joke everyone. The shoes were so off that I needed to have trial shoes continuously made for 14 months (although part of the problem was that they insisted they didn't need to see me wearing the shoes; I could just wear them and send back photos highlighting the parts that didn't fit). I think I had four trial shoes over 14 months.