The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[dieworkwear]

It is not black or white like that.
Many man seem happy with basic fit,
you see it in the bespoke shoes people wear.
Getting the finer fit needs input from client.
Cleverley can do basic good fit,
last maker can do that without any input from client.

but many man now measured and fitted by salesman at Cleverley,
his shoes ill fitting and not good basic fit.

Again, you have limited knowledge of people's experiences. I can tell you that some people have been measured by a last maker, and their shoes fit very poorly.

 

[clee1982]

Very close! There are online personalities that are basically that character.

This reminds me of two stories, which I've recounted before (but for those who haven't heard). Two friends of mine also buy shoes from Nicholas. On two separate occasions, they went to a trunk show wearing their recently delivered Templeman shoes. They came to the trunk show to order another pair. But when they arrived, Nicholas saw something wrong with their shoes and asked if he could have them back, so he could fix some small issue.

This seems like the point of bespoke. Why should a customer have to double-check a maker's work? The whole point of paying all this money is that you assume 1) the experience will be smooth and enjoyable, and 2) the person you're hiring has the skills, knowledge, and eye for these things. They should be able to spot issues you don't see, and be willing to fix them without your prompting.

This issue pops up in bespoke tailoring, too. Some tailors will fix things without you asking; some will send you on your way with a bad coat. I haven't found that any kind of horse whispering will resolve issues -- some people are simply better at thier job and more honest than others (like any trade). If you have to dance with your maker to get good items, like some kind of snake charmer, I don't know if I even see the point.

I agree, though I believe the point is not horsewhipper, be a really big d bag for guys like GC seems like the only way to go, I suppose if that's part of the "experience" yea sure, like I have rage during my job, let me let out all my rage while paying them, and get some more raged on..., that's some next level bespoke experience...

 

[Son Of Saphir]

It not very difficult.
If shoe not fit during fitting,
ask last maker to change it.
Speak up.
Don't accept shoe if it not fit.

But why many men get poor fitting shoe from Cleverley?
Too many orders and details get mixed up or forgotten?
Surely Adam very capable.
Things sound very strange.

 

[dieworkwear]

It not very difficult.
If shoe not fit during fitting,
ask last maker to change it.
Speak up.
Don't accept shoe if it not fit.

People have spoken up at fittings. Their requests were ignored.

Additionaliy, some of the fit issues should not require a customer to speak up. Shack's shoes are a size too big. You can fit a whole finger down the back of the shoes, when worn. This doesn't require a customer to speak up; it requires honesty and eyeballs.

And clearly, Shack isn't accepting shoes that don't fit. We are literally discussing how he can get a refund. That's the literal definition of not accepting something.

Do you have horse whispering tips on how to get a refund? Are there ancient books on this secret technique?

 

[Son Of Saphir]

No amount of horse whispering is going to make the situation better.

Whisper the right type of words to the right people,
and they will listen.
It worked for me.
It not work for others because they not do `the whisper' right.
Good communication is important.

People have spoken up at fittings. Their requests were ignored.

Additionaliy, some of the fit issues should not require a customer to speak up. Shack's shoes are a size too big. You can fit a whole finger down the back of the shoes, when worn. This doesn't require a customer to speak up; it requires honesty and eyeballs.

Maybe Cleverley is disorganised and order details get mixed up.

Do you have horse whispering tips on how to get a refund? Are there ancient books on this secret technique?

The art of `the whisper' is not for the weak of heart.
it not the type of thing an average man can do.

Cleverley need the whispers to do it right.
See,
many men not ready for Cleverley,
he not master of `the whisper'.

The Cleverley has a club within a club.
Solution = elevate your status to get the top treatment.
Solution = learn the whisper to get the top treatment.
It not easy,
but some men are doing it.

 

[WhyUEarly]

I really do believe Son of Saphir for saying there's a club within a club for Cleverly. It's just a very... old-fashioned form of luxury retail, for lack of a better word. I just don't find the "if you know you know" form of luxury appealing at all, but maybe because I'm a younger generation.

Having to be of a certain social class or saying the right words denoting being part of a certain social circle to be deserving of a certain level of quality is very reminiscent of sumptuary laws. Yes, our current world is materialistic, but having access to things purely because of your wealth (hopefully self-earned) instead of being of noble blood is liberating in its own sense.

To bring it back to the topic of the thread, I guess it all goes back to what individuals are looking for in bespoke shoes. If you're trying to be part of a legacy, and experience the storied shoemaking house that made shoes for Winston Churchill etc., then putting up with this sort of dice roll is worth it. On the flip side, if I went bespoke with an under the radar shoemaker (e.g. Nicholas Templeman) and I one day become someone famous and important, I find it incredibly appealing to be the one making the shoemaker famous. In other words, it's better to bet on yourself, then it doesn't matter which shoemaker you use. N o need to borrow glory from Tuzcek's legacy.

 

[dieworkwear]

My guess is that Son of Saphir doesn't actually own bespoke Cleverleys (at least made for him) and he's just posturing, or his shoes also have faults and he doesn't know how to spot them.

There's something deeply dumb about patting yourself on the back for avoiding bad treatment at a company notorious for bad treatment and shoes. It may well be that you simply escaped that bad treatment by luck, but you are not part of a club or exceptional as a customer. This sort of "club within a club" idea is only meaningful for internet points. Normal people don't go into a bespoke situation thinking they're Indiana Jones trying to avoid a rolling boulder.

This is like going to a restaurant where 75% of the people receive crappy food, and you somehow didn't, and then thinking it's because the chef is secretly in love with you, that you're part of an elite club, and that somehow it means you're a fine connoisseur of corned beef Reuben sandwiches.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

My guess is that Son of Saphir doesn't actually own bespoke Cleverleys (at least made for him) and he's just posturing, or his shoes also have faults and he doesn't know how to spot them.

Some people here very lucky,
they see me secret bespokes.
Me keep many things very very secret here.

It may well be that you simply escaped that bad treatment by luck,

It may be me escaped bad treatment because me know the whispers and say the right things.
Me get the top treatment because me know how to work things.
Cleverley give me extra good treatment and took extra time with best maker to do shoes.
Normal man gets pushed to outside with masses.

but you are not part of a club or exceptional as a customer.

You don't know that.
Maybe me part of `the club'.
Me did get Teemu to fly out.
No other man got him here,
but me did.

This sort of "club within a club" idea is only meaningful for internet points. Normal people don't go into a bespoke situation thinking they're Indiana Jones trying to avoid a rolling boulder.

You make many many assumptions.
Cleverley do give certain men special treatment.
There is a club,
but normal men (outsiders) not know about these things.

You look at things from idea of common man.
Common man not in loop,
he want democratization of luxury,
but society maker push him away.

Some men have special ways to get to inner circle.
Most men never will.

 

[ValidusLA]

I know this is like your schtick, but I wish you would write like a normal person. Your prose makes it very difficult to get through your points, and it doesn't add any charm or humor.

Holy **** this is a schtick? I figured it was a language barrier thing. Its awful.

 

[Texasmade]

If you want to be part of a the GJC club, you need to have beautiful friends and family or be an aging action movie star sauced out of their minds on PED's 24/7.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

If you want to be part of a the GJC club, you need to have beautiful friends and family or be an aging action movie star sauced out of their minds on PED's 24/7.

It tells you things.
Average person is nothing to them.
Be like beau brummell and break through to inner circle,
and get all the top privileges,
if you are capable.
George Cleverley are a society shoemaker,
they have enough important folk to keep them going imo,
they don't need normal people,
and that might be why normal people get shabby treatment,
they don't matter,
and elitists are telling them to GO AWAY!
It is sad for ordinary men to hear this,
but elitist clubs think like this.

Know your place,
know where you belong,
know where you not belong.
Know your standing in the society.
The igent not understand this type of thing,
he move in different circles,
and he not understand the inner language used.

 

[dieworkwear]

Holy **** this is a schtick? I figured it was a language barrier thing. Its awful.

No, Son of Saphir speaks English. He's from Australia.

He used to post here under a different username ....

 

[Texasmade]

Very tempted to tell the backstory of why Son of Saphir writes like this ...

We're all ears

 

[ValidusLA]

Very tempted to tell the backstory of why Son of Saphir writes like this ...

Sunstroke? Misunderstanding of what constitutes "style"?

 

[aristoi bcn]

The point is that some makers treat clients differently depending on their status. This happens in London and in Naples and across industries. Nothing new and this is a more common way of doing business than the opposite.

If you are an average customer (like I am in most things I buy) you'd rather go to an honest maker who treats everyone equal. They also exist.