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JFWR

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There seems to be a lot of love for very square-toed styles here. Is there a particular reason why you seem to gravitate that way? It strikes me as a somewhat odd choice for a bespoke shoe. Do you intend to just make the shoe more visually striking by not having it rounded?
 

dieworkwear

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I finally received my pairs of Cleverley and the result is mixed. I'll upload a few photos later, on their own and while worn. The process began in 2019, though it was delayed somewhat by the pandemic. I received my first pair last year - some elasticated loafers. I wore them once and realized that the fit needed some improvement for issues that did not come up during the trial. One shoe was blocking my small toe (so that every step felt like my toe was being pressed forward into a wall) and the other shoe was very loose in the heel, more than an inch off my actual heel. I brought them back to be adjusted, pointing out the issues. GC kindly took them back to do adjustments. I wasn't worried; they were my first pair and they guaranteed fit, so the only loss was not wearing the shoes during the pandemic, but that wasn't an issue.

The other pair, some oxfords, had a very good fit. There are some finish issues, such as the insole not going back to the heel on the inside, some loose stitching on the uppers. Not enough to send back, but noticeable to the eye if one looks. The loafers, however, have many of the same issues. The heel is less loose than it had been, but it's still fairly loose in the back of the ankle - the other loafer does not have the issue, and the oxfords fit very well. The toe issue, however, was not fixed, or, if it was, it was not sufficient. I hadn't put on weight since the fitting or last time I had issues. In fact, I had even lost about 5lbs. So, I'm now debating whether to simply take the shoes to a very good cobbler near me to stretch that toe out a little so that I can walk in it comfortable and live with the loose ankle or sit on them for another year or so until I have a chance to bring them back for another adjustment effort in the hope that they will do it (and pay for transport, too). In the long term, I'm moving off GC to another maker, so it won't be an issue going forward, but still welcome perspective for best ways forward.

edit: rather than posting photos, I'd be happy to send photos to anybody who would care to see them or the issues.
That's really unfortunate. After my botched order, and botched remake, I just asked for a refund. I asked for the refund in a middle of a fight about the whole ordering process, and to his credit, Senior obliged. I don't know if asking for a refund is normal or if they regularly grant refunds. A friend of mine who's a regular Clev customer told me that he often gets botched orders and Clev simply gives him a partial refund when it happens.

With bespoke clothes, I find that orders often go wrong here or there. Sometimes a jacket doesn't go as well as you would have hoped. In those cases, I simply move on. I only asked for a refund in this case because the overall experience was so terrible.

From my experience with tailors, if the order doesn't go right the first time, it's unlikely to go right the second time. Or on remakes. I feel like there ought to be some wiggle room for styling -- sometimes the maker's style isn't what you hoped. But I don't know. In my experience, if a garment doesn't fit well on delivery, aside from styling issues, it just ends up being a huge waste of time and money to get things fixed.

It sounds like you have multiple pairs of shoes. I'm not sure what I would do if I were in your situation. That's a lot of money and those issues aren't things that people put up with in ready-to-wear, nevermind bespoke. I suppose given the number of shoes, I would ask them to address it. But it's a tough choice either way, as then you're also investing time into this situation.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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There seems to be a lot of love for very square-toed styles here. Is there a particular reason why you seem to gravitate that way? It strikes me as a somewhat odd choice for a bespoke shoe. Do you intend to just make the shoe more visually striking by not having it rounded?
Why would it be an odd styling for a bespoke shoe?

By square toe, I assume you mean chisel toe?
 

JFWR

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Why would it be an odd styling for a bespoke shoe?

By square toe, I assume you mean chisel toe?
Take the last two shoes posted in the thread by @hkholdguy and @j ingevaldsson. In the case of HKholdguy's shoes, the toe is quite square in presentation. In J's case, the shoe is closer to a slightly rounded chisel. I think George Cleverley calls that type of shoe "squared off".

I am just wondering what the aesthetic reason for this is. Is it to be especially striking?
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Take the last two shoes posted in the thread by @hkholdguy and @j ingevaldsson. In the case of HKholdguy's shoes, the toe is quite square in presentation. In J's case, the shoe is closer to a slightly rounded chisel. I think George Cleverley calls that type of shoe "squared off".

I am just wondering what the aesthetic reason for this is. Is it to be especially striking?
Not sure there's an aesthetic reason. Shoes can come with an almond toe or a chiseled toe. It's a matter of preference and styling.

I find chiseled toes look a bit dressier, but it depends on the rest of the shoe.
 

j ingevaldsson

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Take the last two shoes posted in the thread by @hkholdguy and @j ingevaldsson. In the case of HKholdguy's shoes, the toe is quite square in presentation. In J's case, the shoe is closer to a slightly rounded chisel. I think George Cleverley calls that type of shoe "squared off".

I am just wondering what the aesthetic reason for this is. Is it to be especially striking?
I can't really speak for others, but personally I mainly use four different bespoke makers, where I have one toe shape from each maker.


Soft chiseled - Yohei Fukuda:

DSC03453.jpg



Soft square - Gaziano & Girling / Catella Shoemaker (going forward):

DSC03355.jpg



Classic round - Main d'Or:

DSC03397.jpg



Almond toe - Hiro Yanagimachi:

DSC03426.jpg


So basically, when I want a classic round toe model, I go to Main d'Or, if I want a shoe with a soft chiseled toe, I go to Fukuda, etc. I think I'm using the best types of lasts each of these makers offer, while all obviously are excellent makers on the absolute highest of level, with their various strong and less strong areas and types of designs, but this way I feel I use the most from each of them in a way.
 

JFWR

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I can't really speak for others, but personally I mainly use four different bespoke makers, where I have one toe shape from each maker.


Soft chiseled - Yohei Fukuda:

View attachment 1538417


Soft square - Gaziano & Girling / Catella Shoemaker (going forward):

View attachment 1538418


Classic round - Main d'Or:

View attachment 1538419


Almond toe - Hiro Yanagimachi:

View attachment 1538422

So basically, when I want a classic round toe model, I go to Main d'Or, if I want a shoe with a soft chiseled toe, I go to Fukuda, etc. I think I'm using the best types of lasts each of these makers offer, while all obviously are excellent makers on the absolute highest of level, with their various strong and less strong areas and types of designs, but this way I feel I use the most from each of them in a way.
Great post! Thank you for your insight here. I suppose that makes sense given the mastery of each specific shoe maker.
 

clee1982

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I've only used Clev and Nicholas, and only plan to use Nicholas moving forward. I just show him photos to illustrate the kind of shape I want on an order and he executes it.

View attachment 1538431
View attachment 1538430View attachment 1538432




New pair will be soft square tassel loafers like this


View attachment 1538433View attachment 1538434
by the way why did you pick soft square tassel vs traditional round? Seems round is a bit more versatile while soft square always feel dressy (and consider your other order seem to be less dressy type?)
 

clee1982

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I can't really speak for others, but personally I mainly use four different bespoke makers, where I have one toe shape from each maker.


Soft chiseled - Yohei Fukuda:

View attachment 1538417


Soft square - Gaziano & Girling / Catella Shoemaker (going forward):

View attachment 1538418


Classic round - Main d'Or:

View attachment 1538419


Almond toe - Hiro Yanagimachi:

View attachment 1538422

So basically, when I want a classic round toe model, I go to Main d'Or, if I want a shoe with a soft chiseled toe, I go to Fukuda, etc. I think I'm using the best types of lasts each of these makers offer, while all obviously are excellent makers on the absolute highest of level, with their various strong and less strong areas and types of designs, but this way I feel I use the most from each of them in a way.
All looking great!
 

shackletonian

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That's really unfortunate. After my botched order, and botched remake, I just asked for a refund. I asked for the refund in a middle of a fight about the whole ordering process, and to his credit, Senior obliged. I don't know if asking for a refund is normal or if they regularly grant refunds. A friend of mine who's a regular Clev customer told me that he often gets botched orders and Clev simply gives him a partial refund when it happens.

With bespoke clothes, I find that orders often go wrong here or there. Sometimes a jacket doesn't go as well as you would have hoped. In those cases, I simply move on. I only asked for a refund in this case because the overall experience was so terrible.

From my experience with tailors, if the order doesn't go right the first time, it's unlikely to go right the second time. Or on remakes. I feel like there ought to be some wiggle room for styling -- sometimes the maker's style isn't what you hoped. But I don't know. In my experience, if a garment doesn't fit well on delivery, aside from styling issues, it just ends up being a huge waste of time and money to get things fixed.

It sounds like you have multiple pairs of shoes. I'm not sure what I would do if I were in your situation. That's a lot of money and those issues aren't things that people put up with in ready-to-wear, nevermind bespoke. I suppose given the number of shoes, I would ask them to address it. But it's a tough choice either way, as then you're also investing time into this situation.

Thanks. I went and checked the shoes again this morning -- to give it a day before replying and see how they fit again. I realized that the oxfords felt strange near the heel because they use more padding under the heel than I've seen in any other shoe, so the drop off from padding under the heel to the rest of the foot is noticeable. Maybe that will go away with time? I compared it to the other GC shoes and other shoes in my closet and didn't see anything like it. Has anybody else experienced something like this? I was wondering whether it might have been their attempt to resolve the issue I had with the loafer heels, but making the heel feel odd.

I also am including photos of the loafer heels to show how differently they fit. On the heel of the right shoe, there is a little space between the top of the shoe and my ankle, but that seems to be within a margin. I used a sharpie to show the relative space. At that point, the sharpie is poking my foot, so it wouldn't go down further. By comparison, on the other heel, the sharpie goes all the way down to the shoe - there's more space, still, between the heel of the shoe and my foot.
 

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clee1982

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That’s definitely too long, thought you’re not their first time customer, would imagine they got the last nailed down
 

Texasmade

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Thanks. I went and checked the shoes again this morning -- to give it a day before replying and see how they fit again. I realized that the oxfords felt strange near the heel because they use more padding under the heel than I've seen in any other shoe, so the drop off from padding under the heel to the rest of the foot is noticeable. Maybe that will go away with time? I compared it to the other GC shoes and other shoes in my closet and didn't see anything like it. Has anybody else experienced something like this? I was wondering whether it might have been their attempt to resolve the issue I had with the loafer heels, but making the heel feel odd.

I also am including photos of the loafer heels to show how differently they fit. On the heel of the right shoe, there is a little space between the top of the shoe and my ankle, but that seems to be within a margin. I used a sharpie to show the relative space. At that point, the sharpie is poking my foot, so it wouldn't go down further. By comparison, on the other heel, the sharpie goes all the way down to the shoe - there's more space, still, between the heel of the shoe and my foot.
Those loafers don't fit. Especially the one where you can put the whole sharpie in the heel. I would let them know and have them take it back. If GJC are any good, they will fix it. Based on other SF members past dealings with GJC, don't be surprised if you get some push back.
 

dieworkwear

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Thanks. I went and checked the shoes again this morning -- to give it a day before replying and see how they fit again. I realized that the oxfords felt strange near the heel because they use more padding under the heel than I've seen in any other shoe, so the drop off from padding under the heel to the rest of the foot is noticeable. Maybe that will go away with time? I compared it to the other GC shoes and other shoes in my closet and didn't see anything like it. Has anybody else experienced something like this? I was wondering whether it might have been their attempt to resolve the issue I had with the loafer heels, but making the heel feel odd.

I also am including photos of the loafer heels to show how differently they fit. On the heel of the right shoe, there is a little space between the top of the shoe and my ankle, but that seems to be within a margin. I used a sharpie to show the relative space. At that point, the sharpie is poking my foot, so it wouldn't go down further. By comparison, on the other heel, the sharpie goes all the way down to the shoe - there's more space, still, between the heel of the shoe and my foot.
There were multiple issues on my shoe, but one of them was that I could fit a whole finger between my heel and the shoe when they were worn. My finger could touch the bottom. When I brought up the issue to Senior, he offered to sell the shoes to me at a heavy discount and just use my deposit to remake the order. He said I could put an insole in them to resolve the fit issue. Ultimately, I got my money back.

It sounds like to solve the fit issue on your first pair, they just filled the shoes with padding, rather that fix it the right way (relasting or remaking). And from your photos, it looks like they still don't fit. I don't know what to say. That sounds incredibly disappointing.

On my Templeman shoes, the heel is tight. I would not be able to stick a pen at the back.
 

j ingevaldsson

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Great post! Thank you for your insight here. I suppose that makes sense given the mastery of each specific shoe maker.
Thanks! It's a good solution if you want to use several makers. Most would probably be well off working with only one bespoke shoemaker though (well, I quess most will never buy bespoke, but you get my point).

All looking great!
Cheers!
 

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