The Anderson & Sheppard Expatriates Thread

[dieworkwear]

Ok Derek, I’ll play ....

When I look at Vox’s cut, my eyes are immediately drawn to a very heavy chest. It’s all “chest and arms”. And this particular photo is more flattering than some others of the same coat.

The other coat I’ve commented on I’ve critiqued but for quite different reasons. But almost invariably related to the “top heaviness” of the Steed Cut. It just doesn’t look good on all body types but my impression is that this “House Cut” is just a “Cut & Paste” without regard for the body types.

Alan Bee
View attachment 1262900

Wait I thought you wanted a V shape from shoulders to legs?

Also, what is this red arrow pointing to? Are we clarifying that's his chest?

 

[Alan Bee]

Wait I thought you wanted a V shape from shoulders to legs?

Derek, frankly I’m not in the mood for trading horses this morning but I’d like to think you’re way too smart not the get the point.

Here’s a Steed cut I could get behind ? percent. Simple outstanding and well suited to the wearer @Slewfoot

Notice how the shoulders, hips are balanced. In this case a coat worn with jeans and not a suit so can’t comment on the trouser hem/width balance.

Alan Bee.

 

[dieworkwear]

Derek, frankly I’m not in the mood for trading horses this morning but I’d like to think you’re way too smart not the get the point.

Here’s a Steed cut I could get behind ? percent. Simple outstanding and well suited to the wearer @Slewfoot

Notice how the shoulders, hips are balanced. In this case a coat worn with jeans and not a suit so can’t comment on the trouser hem/width balance.

Alan Bee.
View attachment 1262902

Well I think that's more representative of the house cut. IME, if you say nothing, and you're a similar build, which is probably truer for most men than Vox, then you will wind up with a coat like that.

A lot of the stuff you've said so far has more to do with the person's build than the coat. They're not going to rearrange your body. If you have square shoulders, you will wind up with a square-shouldered coat. If you have an athletic build, that will also show up. Vox's coats aren't even that drapey.

For all your soft tailoring, your coats also don't hide your traps because that's a part of your body. Criticizing that element of the silhouette wouldn't make any sense because it's not about the tailoring.

 

[dieworkwear]

Derek, frankly I’m not in the mood for trading horses this morning but I’d like to think you’re way too smart not the get the point.

Here’s a Steed cut I could get behind ? percent. Simple outstanding and well suited to the wearer @Slewfoot

Notice how the shoulders, hips are balanced. In this case a coat worn with jeans and not a suit so can’t comment on the trouser hem/width balance.

Alan Bee.
View attachment 1262902

Same wearer. Left is Steed. Right is NSM. The NSM coat was commissioned around the same time I used them. They skipped around with different cutters and tailors, but in my experience, all their coats were very lightweight and soft. I have to check, but I don't know if they even used haircloth in some of my commissions.

Comparing these two instead of the other photo because Vox is wearing a London Lounge Cloth Club tweed in that image. Which I think is a Lovat Shetland, and thus super thick and spongey. These two fabrics are a little closer in weight.

You're not going to get Slewfoot's silhouette out of Vox because Slewfoot is built differently.

 

[Alan Bee]

Well I think that's more representative of the house cut. IME, if you say nothing, and you're a similar build, which is probably truer for most men than Vox, then you will wind up with a coat like that.

A lot of the stuff you've said so far has more to do with the person's build than the coat. They're not going to rearrange your body. If you have square shoulders, you will wind up with a square-shouldered coat. If you have an athletic build, that will also show up. Vox's coats aren't even that drapey.

For all your soft tailoring, your coats also don't hide your traps because that's a part of your body. Criticizing that element of the silhouette wouldn't make any sense because it's not about the tailoring.

True Derek. I’ve made peace with my abnormal traps and have since come to the decision that soft tailored clothes (despite my traps) are the lesser of two evils vs. a structured and padded shoulder/chest.

However in the case of Vox’s cut, silhouette is another matter altogether. The role of a tailor (and do correct me if I’m wrong), is to visualize the natural body and compensate for it through the cut.

Alan Bee

 

[Alan Bee]

Same wearer. Left is Steed. Right is NSM. The NSM coat was commissioned around the same time I used them. They skipped around with different cutters and tailors, but in my experience, all their coats were very lightweight and soft. I have to check, but I don't know if they even used haircloth in some of my commissions.

Comparing these two instead of the other photo because Vox is wearing a London Lounge Cloth Club tweed in that image. Which I think is a Lovat Shetland, and thus super thick and spongey. These two fabrics are a little closer in weight.

You're not going to get Slewfoot's silhouette out of Vox because Slewfoot is built differently.



View attachment 1262904

Derek, I’d hate to bring up myself lest I be accused (yet again of preening) but from my photos you’d never guess I had a 14” drop. That’s the whole point of tailoring.

Alan Bee

 

[Aloysius16]

To my eye, the slightly unappealing thing about the Steed shoulder line is the hint of pagoda/concave shape in many of the jackets I have seen. I know this is simple personal preference, but I have always preferred a straight or even rounded/concave line.

I don’t think this is anything to do with an excess of padding, but is due to a combination of little padding plus a stiffer/higher collar and a slightly more constructed sleeve head. With my shoulders, it actually takes a little more padding to get a softer looking line.

 

[smittycl]

I still think this jacket below is great. I don't get your criticism of it.

It even follows your "shoulders should be a straight line to trouser" theory!



View attachment 1262896

Yes, this one looks fine. Very good actually.

 

[Concordia]

Very Steed-like.

 

[9thsymph]

To my eye, the slightly unappealing thing about the Steed shoulder line is the hint of pagoda/concave shape in many of the jackets I have seen. I know this is simple personal preference, but I have always preferred a straight or even rounded/concave line.

I don’t think this is anything to do with an excess of padding, but is due to a combination of little padding plus a stiffer/higher collar and a slightly more constructed sleeve head. With my shoulders, it actually takes a little more padding to get a softer looking line.

Pagoda/concave shoulder? On a steed jacket? Haha...where? I can't tell if this is some sort of gaslighting or innocent confusion. Could you share an example? In the meantime, would you characterize these as pagoda-shaped:

 

[9thsymph]

Very Steed-like.

View attachment 1262972

looks good to me!

 

[Alan Bee]

looks good to me!

Really?

Besides the chest which look like they’re holding a water balloon, not sure what’s going on at the the sleevehead. This is not acceptable for bespoke. MTM maybe but not Bespoke.

Alan Bee

 

[Alan Bee]

Pagoda/concave shoulder? On a steed jacket? Haha...where? I can't tell if this is some sort of gaslighting or innocent confusion. Could you share an example? In the meantime, would you characterize these as pagoda-shaped: View attachment 1262974

Your coat is outstanding by comparison

Alan Bee

 

[Aloysius16]

Pagoda/concave shoulder? On a steed jacket? Haha...where? I can't tell if this is some sort of gaslighting or innocent confusion. Could you share an example? In the meantime, would you characterize these as pagoda-shaped: View attachment 1262974

certainly not pagoda shape by intention, but I get a hint of it due to the high collar, large gorge, etc. There is then a dip into the collarbone area that then straightens towards the sleeve head creating a kind of concave line. The coat you have pictured doesn’t exhibit this really at all, but many others posted on this thread have done.

 

[lordsuperb]

Really?

Besides the chest which look like they’re holding a water balloon, not sure what’s going on at the the sleevehead. This is not acceptable for bespoke. MTM maybe but not Bespoke.

Alan Bee
View attachment 1262982 View attachment 1262983

This is their standard house cut and usually the amount of chest swell you’ll get unless you ask for the chest to be leaner. The chest is enhanced by the nipped waist. I ask for them not to do it on my jackets.

As for the shoulders I’ve learned to give the garments time to break in to see how they settle in. They can make any shoulder you want you just need to specify it. These coats can’t be properly assessed until they’ve been broken in and adjusted according to the customer.