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The Anderson & Sheppard Expatriates Thread

lordsuperb

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Simon's jacket seems like it has the same issues I've experienced in my own A&S commission, as well as the jacket made for Manton. Those three samples spans three different cutters, which makes me wonder if it's an issue with their block patterns. Although, I'm also not sure why, even if it's in their block patterns, these issues aren't caught at fittings.

Three main issues are sleeve pitch, balance, and always having the grain of the fabric run away from the wearer. This was easier to spot on Manton's jacket since it's checked; harder on Simon's since it's a plain fabric, but visible if you pay attention to the weave.

Mine doesn't have that grain/ pattern issue. But it did have sleeve pitch and balance issues. I ended up having those issues adjusted elsewhere.

Modern A&S is also not very drape-y.

Will say A&S' customer service otherwise has been great. And Colin is one of the best dressed people I've ever met. I love the history of the firm, but the fit issues makes me hesitant about going back.

Actually, @Concordia, I think you're an A&S customer, is that right? Have you experienced these same issues?
They weren't able to fix those issues, what constitutes a re-do :(?
 

Concordia

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Actually, @Concordia, I think you're an A&S customer, is that right? Have you experienced these same issues?
Fit has been fine for me, especially now that I've lost a bunch of weight. But the basic pattern was already there and just needs tweaking, for the most part. My oldest garment from them that I still wear is a 20-year-old DB blazer from my first order. Somewhat agricultural-looking handwork on the shoulder seams and cuff buttons, but a very fine silhouette-- even better now that the waist has come in a few inches.
 

Concordia

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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Fit has been fine for me, especially now that I've lost a bunch of weight. But the basic pattern was already there and just needs tweaking, for the most part. My oldest garment from them that I still wear is a 20-year-old DB blazer from my first order. Somewhat agricultural-looking handwork on the shoulder seams and cuff buttons, but a very fine silhouette-- even better now that the waist has come in a few inches.
Twenty years is quite a while ago. Was your cutter then Edwin?

I wonder if your pattern was made from scratch, whereas afterwards they switch to blocks. I have no issue with block patterns, but just wonder why the same issues appear on A&S jackets across three different cutters.

The first is the sleeve pitch, as others have mentioned. On my jacket, the front of the jacket showed a bit more shirt cuff. And while my cutter is incredibly nice (genuinely), I was a bit disappointed that his initial remedy was to just let out the sleeve. It wasn't an issue of sleeve length, but pitch. If you push your arm back a little, you can see how the front will show more cuff, but the back less. Hard to notice until you view the jacket from the side. Otherwise you might just think it's a short sleeve.

The other issue, which a friend pointed out to me, is that A&S jackets often have the fabric running out and away from the wearer. You see this in whnay's jacket

as11.jpg


It's harder to spot in Simon's jacket because it's a plain fabric, but you can tell if you look closely at the weave. Also the angle of the patch pockets and dart.

Anderson-Sheppard-bespoke-jacket.jpg


Anderson-Sheppard-style-breakdown.jpg


Here is Manton's jacket, the worst of the bunch. On the left, you can se the original. As you move right, the jacket is Photoshopped so that the pattern falls correctly.

mantonsemifoofed.jpg


The other stuff about styling seems secondary to me. You can ask for more or less drape; straight or more bellied lapels. But I do worry and wonder why these issues occur across a range of cutters. And why they're not caught at the fitting stages. It seems to me that, if it happens across a range of cutters, maybe it's about the block patterns, which were introduced after the '90s (AFAIK). So possibly after you became a customer and had your pattern made.
 

Concordia

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I think John Hitchcock was my first cutter. He certainly was my main contact for most of the years until he retired.
 

aristoi bcn

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The other issue, which a friend pointed out to me, is that A&S jackets often have the fabric running out and away from the wearer. You see this in whnay's jacket

View attachment 1007939
As much as I look at the picture I'm not able to identify what do you mean by the fabric running out and away from the wearer, what do you mean exactly?
 

Medwed

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As much as I look at the picture I'm not able to identify what do you mean by the fabric running out and away from the wearer, what do you mean exactly?
Vertical pattern lines are running at an angle down the front of the jacket.

Non vented flannel Blazer by Steven Hitchcock with grey flannel trousers. by Butler posted May 7, 2015 at 10:15 AM[/GALLERY]
View attachment 1008086
The fit of this jacket gives a new meaning to bespoke.
 

kolecho

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Twenty years is quite a while ago. Was your cutter then Edwin?

I wonder if your pattern was made from scratch, whereas afterwards they switch to blocks. I have no issue with block patterns, but just wonder why the same issues appear on A&S jackets across three different cutters.

The first is the sleeve pitch, as others have mentioned. On my jacket, the front of the jacket showed a bit more shirt cuff. And while my cutter is incredibly nice (genuinely), I was a bit disappointed that his initial remedy was to just let out the sleeve. It wasn't an issue of sleeve length, but pitch. If you push your arm back a little, you can see how the front will show more cuff, but the back less. Hard to notice until you view the jacket from the side. Otherwise you might just think it's a short sleeve.

The other issue, which a friend pointed out to me, is that A&S jackets often have the fabric running out and away from the wearer. You see this in whnay's jacket

View attachment 1007939

It's harder to spot in Simon's jacket because it's a plain fabric, but you can tell if you look closely at the weave. Also the angle of the patch pockets and dart.

View attachment 1007941

View attachment 1007942

Here is Manton's jacket, the worst of the bunch. On the left, you can se the original. As you move right, the jacket is Photoshopped so that the pattern falls correctly.

View attachment 1007943

The other stuff about styling seems secondary to me. You can ask for more or less drape; straight or more bellied lapels. But I do worry and wonder why these issues occur across a range of cutters. And why they're not caught at the fitting stages. It seems to me that, if it happens across a range of cutters, maybe it's about the block patterns, which were introduced after the '90s (AFAIK). So possibly after you became a customer and had your pattern made.
Front balance is too long on all three jackets and this can be fixed.
 

jonathanS

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Twenty years is quite a while ago. Was your cutter then Edwin?

I wonder if your pattern was made from scratch, whereas afterwards they switch to blocks. I have no issue with block patterns, but just wonder why the same issues appear on A&S jackets across three different cutters.

The first is the sleeve pitch, as others have mentioned. On my jacket, the front of the jacket showed a bit more shirt cuff. And while my cutter is incredibly nice (genuinely), I was a bit disappointed that his initial remedy was to just let out the sleeve. It wasn't an issue of sleeve length, but pitch. If you push your arm back a little, you can see how the front will show more cuff, but the back less. Hard to notice until you view the jacket from the side. Otherwise you might just think it's a short sleeve.

The other issue, which a friend pointed out to me, is that A&S jackets often have the fabric running out and away from the wearer. You see this in whnay's jacket

View attachment 1007939

It's harder to spot in Simon's jacket because it's a plain fabric, but you can tell if you look closely at the weave. Also the angle of the patch pockets and dart.

View attachment 1007941

View attachment 1007942

Here is Manton's jacket, the worst of the bunch. On the left, you can se the original. As you move right, the jacket is Photoshopped so that the pattern falls correctly.

View attachment 1007943

The other stuff about styling seems secondary to me. You can ask for more or less drape; straight or more bellied lapels. But I do worry and wonder why these issues occur across a range of cutters. And why they're not caught at the fitting stages. It seems to me that, if it happens across a range of cutters, maybe it's about the block patterns, which were introduced after the '90s (AFAIK). So possibly after you became a customer and had your pattern made.

Could this be because A&S uses fish cuts for shape rather than a side body?

http://thesavilerowtailor.co.uk/2016/11/09/diffrents-steven-hitchcock-suit-one-andersson-sheppard-home/

"I was taught to cut a coat using the ‘fish cuts.’ I still use this technique for some of my clients, but I also use the side body technique too. I much prefer the side body, as do most west end tailors. This allows me to cut shape into the coat where it is needed, unlike the fish cuts which just take a suppression in the waist. Some times if the fish cut is not tailored correctly, it can leave the front of the coat floating away from the body. A side body which has a belly cut taken from it will shape the bottom of the coat, perfectly fitting the shape of the body."​

Front balance is too long on all three jackets and this can be fixed.
Pardon my ignorance, how can you tell the front/back balance is off on the first jacket?
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Could this be because A&S uses fish cuts for shape rather than a side body?

http://thesavilerowtailor.co.uk/2016/11/09/diffrents-steven-hitchcock-suit-one-andersson-sheppard-home/

"I was taught to cut a coat using the ‘fish cuts.’ I still use this technique for some of my clients, but I also use the side body technique too. I much prefer the side body, as do most west end tailors. This allows me to cut shape into the coat where it is needed, unlike the fish cuts which just take a suppression in the waist. Some times if the fish cut is not tailored correctly, it can leave the front of the coat floating away from the body. A side body which has a belly cut taken from it will shape the bottom of the coat, perfectly fitting the shape of the body."​



Pardon my ignorance, how can you tell the front/back balance is off on the first jacket?
I don't think so. I mean, for one, none of Steven Hitchcock's jackets hang like that. My A&S and Steeds are also constructed the same (A&S is a little softer), but my Steeds hang straight.

Whatever the reason, I can't imagine it's intentional. I also don't understand why it's not fixed and why it occurs so often. I can only imagine it's about the block patterns.

Come to think of it, I was wrong about it spanning three cutters. It's just two, AFAIK. I believe they started with block patterns when John Hitchcock took over. I believe Whnay and Manton's cutter was Hitchcock. Mine is Danny Hall. My jacket doesn't have that weird A-frame thing, but there were some balance issues and I think the two are related.

To be fair, I attended my final fitting, but ended up getting the adjustments done elsewhere. So my final product isn't pure A&S. Maybe they would have caught it somehow back at the workshop, but the issues weren't addressed in a way that made me feel comfortable at the fitting, so I just had the adjustments done by another tailor.
 

jonathanS

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I don't think so. I mean, for one, none of Steven Hitchcock's jackets hang like that. My A&S and Steeds are also constructed the same (A&S is a little softer), but my Steeds hang straight.

Whatever the reason, I can't imagine it's intentional. I also don't understand why it's not fixed and why it occurs so often. I can only imagine it's about the block patterns.

Come to think of it, I was wrong about it spanning three cutters. It's just two, AFAIK. I believe they started with block patterns when John Hitchcock took over. I believe Whnay and Manton's cutter was Hitchcock. Mine is Danny Hall. My jacket doesn't have that weird A-frame thing, but there were some balance issues and I think the two are related.

To be fair, I attended my final fitting, but ended up getting the adjustments done elsewhere. So my final product isn't pure A&S. Maybe they would have caught it somehow back at the workshop, but the issues weren't addressed in a way that made me feel comfortable at the fitting, so I just had the adjustments done by another tailor.
I think Steven hitchcock cuts a sidebody generally (Atleast according to that excerpt from his website).

Do you find that tailors who don’t actually make the garment are willing to make adjustments to stuff they didn’t cut? I’d feel weird asking a bespoke tailor to alter another tailor’s work.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I think Steven hitchcock cuts a sidebody generally (Atleast according to that excerpt from his website).

Do you find that tailors who don’t actually make the garment are willing to make adjustments to stuff they didn’t cut? I’d feel weird asking a bespoke tailor to alter another tailor’s work.
My tailor offered to do the final fitting. Agree, it's not something I would normally ask of anyone. I just took him up on the offer.

As far as I understand it, a side body is used to add shape to a coat. Like when you want to kick out the skirt. Colin Harvey at A&S used to wear the A&S cut with a side body. I don't think it should change how the jacket should hang up and down.
 
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