The 2007 NBA Playoffs

[whacked]

Originally Posted by injung

Unlike Lebron, who's pretty much on the offensive the entire game, Kobe really only had to assert himself in the second halves of games (i.e. last night when he closed it out).

Righttttt.

 

[whodini]

Dear Mr.Stern,

Thank you for the present.

Sincerely,
Los Angeles

 

[Southern-Nupe]

Man I'm going to love this series.


Chrono,

I agree with what you said earlier, if you can't appreciate KG's game, then you likely don't know ball.

 

[76classic]

Boy, the Pistons sure did rip my heart right out the chest cavity.

 

[Dekayte]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

It's so dumb every time a player who hasn't won an nba title but who is a superstar, has a bad game, the media blames it on choking/not being a finisher/not having "winners mentality" or something else. It's a team ******* game, people.



I agree about lebron and mike brown being awful awful when it comes to offense. I still think that lebron only having 1 good play in his arsenal (the drive) limits him against good teams. When he develops a better post game, consistent jumper and a floater, he'll be much less vulnerable to teams like the spurs.

+1.

I love it when people who don't know **** about basketball say something along the lines of 'Oh [INSERT NAME] chokes everytime he gets a chance' (Usually Dirk/KG). Like they say, people only talk about when they don't get it done as opposed to when they do get it done. They aren't machines.

 

[chronoaug]

There are lots of players who never were able to get over the title hump. Pierce, allen, kidd, AI, nash, and plenty more superstars. The funny thing is, the minute they win a title, people just ignore everything else. Also, dwayne wade has gotten a huge pass for getting lucky paired with shaq and the greatest free throw performance in finals history. He really hasn't progressed AT ALL as a player and didn't do **** with the heat last year. Before all the decent heat players faked injuries and just called it a season in february/march, their team wasn't really that bad. Dwyane got solid stats, but his lack of any kind of shooting ability mid or long range, his simple mindedness on offense, lack of variety of shots besides, and his complete lack of any kind of defense is really getting to be a problem. It seems like he maxed out potential wise his 3rd year in the NBA. Not good. People were saying with injuries and shaq leaving that he might be the next Penny. Here's the secret (he was never as talented as Penny was during penny's prime).

 

[Dekayte]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

There are lots of players who never were able to get over the title hump. Pierce, allen, kidd, AI, nash, and plenty more superstars. The funny thing is, the minute they win a title, people just ignore everything else.

It's funny that it's Pierce, Allen and KG's first appearance in the finals considering how good all of them are. I hope they can get their title in two years.

Kobe needs to win this year so he can get MVP this season, Championship, and Olympic Gold medal. Probably won't get another chance for the rest of his life if he doesn't get it done this year. Only person to ever do that was Jordan, and I've been hoping Kobe could do it.

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Dekayte

Kobe needs to win this year so he can get MVP this season, Championship, and Olympic Gold medal. Probably won't get another chance for the rest of his life if he doesn't get it done this year. Only person to ever do that was Jordan, and I've been hoping Kobe could do it.

Funny how often the broadcasters bring this up, considering that thus far there have been only four opportunities for this to occur. (The first year professional basketball players were allowed to play in the Olympics was 1992.)

 

[Southern-Nupe]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

There are lots of players who never were able to get over the title hump. Pierce, allen, kidd, AI, nash, and plenty more superstars. The funny thing is, the minute they win a title, people just ignore everything else. Also, dwayne wade has gotten a huge pass for getting lucky paired with shaq and the greatest free throw performance in finals history. He really hasn't progressed AT ALL as a player and didn't do **** with the heat last year. Before all the decent heat players faked injuries and just called it a season in february/march, their team wasn't really that bad. Dwyane got solid stats, but his lack of any kind of shooting ability mid or long range, his simple mindedness on offense, lack of variety of shots besides, and his complete lack of any kind of defense is really getting to be a problem. It seems like he maxed out potential wise his 3rd year in the NBA. Not good. People were saying with injuries and shaq leaving that he might be the next Penny. Here's the secret (he was never as talented as Penny was during penny's prime).
I can't really hate on Wade, sure he's not a consistent shooter, but he still finds ways to get it done (when not injured). Of course his lack of a true shooting touch is what's keeping him injured...that and the fact he continues to sacrifice himself, due to his team not really being that good. You have to remember, he's more of a scorer rather than a pure shooter...besides his midrange has slightly improved since his debut, it's his 3 pt. shot that continues to suffer (IMO the 3pt can be overrated).

I do agree about his subpar defensive skills, but then this is the NBA (half the players in the league are below average at best).

 

[chronoaug]

Yea, but even lebron has improved somewhat. And look at the title teams. They all paly good defense (pierce has been great in the playoffs). Wade's a scorer, but his scoring isn't really helping his team much. Everyone in the nba plays injured too. Hell, even josh smith learned how to shoot a basketball. There is only so much Wade can do to help his team win if he can't do anything but drive at the rim and pray for a foul. When he doesn't get the calls, he is pretty easy to stop. Lebron gets away with it because he is a dominant physical force unlike wade who is undersized for the position.


I just didn't like all the Penny comparisons because i think a lot of people forget how amazing penny was. I won't go into it more because i remember we spent a bunch of posts a few months ago on Penny.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

Yea, but even lebron has improved somewhat. And look at the title teams. They all paly good defense (pierce has been great in the playoffs). Wade's a scorer, but his scoring isn't really helping his team much. Everyone in the nba plays injured too. Hell, even josh smith learned how to shoot a basketball. There is only so much Wade can do to help his team win if he can't do anything but drive at the rim and pray for a foul. When he doesn't get the calls, he is pretty easy to stop. Lebron gets away with it because he is a dominant physical force unlike wade who is undersized for the position.

Erhh... not really.

1) Wade can actually play defense... Not on Kobe or Artest's level, but above average, very consistent as well. Charley Rosen (MSN) once wrote an article comparing Wade and LeBron, and he gave Wade a huge leg up in this regard. Too bad it's more than 6 months old so I couldn't find it in his archive.

2) When his head (and body) is right, Wade's shooting is every bit as good as LeBron's. Rather streaky and usually improves at the end of games.

3) Wade is NOT undersized for his positions (he plays SG about 75% of the time, PG the rest). Wade is about half an inch shorter than Kobe, about as as physical, and has probably the quickest first step in the NBA.

 

[chronoaug]

Kobe's 6'6-6'7 and wade is like 6'4, right? 6'4 isn't severly undersized but it's on the short end of the sg position. Wade is also a career 28% 3point shooter and averages less than one 3point shot a game. It's hard to open things up for your teammates when they can just stack the lane. Wade can't even streak shoot a 3pointer. Lebron can sure stand to take less 3pointers, but at least that shot in his arsenal can force the defense to play a bit different than if he never took a 3.

Wade is a strong guy and all but he doesn't have any kind of post game. He presents virtually no matchup problems (when he plays point they normally have an undersized or pure shooting 2 so the other team's 2guard covers wade) with his size. He is purely a drive and get a crazy layup or hope for a foul kinda guy at this point. And he peaked 2 years ago.

I'm sorry but his defense is not good. Not only does his size make him vulnerable to bigger or 2guards with post skills (kobe, pierce, rip, etc...) but he has never been a good on the ball defender. He gets steals because he plays the passing lanes but that's like saying gilbert arenas is a good defender because gil always gets good steal numbers. Lebron's defense still isn't that great but it has come a long way. I'd agree that wade's D and game was better 2-3 years ago, but i think lebron has shown some improvement while wade has basically stayed the same (although it's still a really high level). It's just dissapointing to see a guy who people were crowning as a hall of fame lock 2-3 years ago, struggle to win games, improve himself and teammates, and most importantly stay healthy.

 

[Brian278]

I'm just going to quote an old post of mine regarding Wade and his height:

Originally Posted by Brian278

I am of the firm belief that Wade is the ultimately rarity on an NBA roster guide---someone who's actually listed at shorter than his height in shoes. I remember seeing results from the 2003 NBA draft combine from Chad Ford on the ESPN site, and Dwayne measured 6' 5" in shoes. Believe me when I say, nearly every other player on there is now listed at his "in shoes" height, or taller. Now a 6' 5" shooting guard isn't prototypical height for the 2 in the modern NBA, but it's hardly "undersized", and he's a great athlete with an excellent wingspan for his size. And I firmly agree with you when you say he played the 2 on that team. He had the ball in his hand all the time, but so did MJ and so does Kobe. Plus, D-Wade is/was a hell of player when he is fully healthy, and Arenas (and I must say, Iverson) isn't in his class in terms of making a team better when they are all playing at their best. I miss the old D-Wade.

And I'll add that when he was fully healthy and on a team of motivated players and coach (what's that someone is always saying about it being a team game?) he was a top 3 player in the league, no question. He put that team on his back and closed a lot of games Kobe-style against top notch competition in the regular season and playoffs, including a lot of clutch mid-range shots. And your appraisal of his shot isn't entirely accurate, 3-point % is terrible but he's very solid from mid-range and has a decent bank shot to go with it. Hollinger has him making 37.8 of his long 2s, which isn't terrible. His TS% was comparable with Kobe's in 05-06 and 06-07, and he was and is one of the best distributors from the SG position. I agree he hasn't progressed but he's been the victim of circumstance to a degree with an old, unmotivated team after they won that title and the injuries he's had to fight through. You could also argue that while Lebron has gotten better, Wade already has a Finals MVP on his resume in his 3rd year. He still has a shot to make the HOF yet if he stays healthy, it's only a matter of time before Riley rebuilds in Miami especially when they are about to pick up Rose or Beasley. He was electric to watch when he was playing at his best and I hope he gets back there sooner rather than later.

 

[chronoaug]

That's great that he won a title already, but that doesn't have anything to do with the present and being the same or arguably worse since then has to be worrisome to heat fans.

I know i'd be worried about dwight howard if in 2-3 years he was about the same as this past year.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

That's great that he won a title already, but that doesn't have anything to do with the present and being the same or arguably worse since then has to be worrisome to heat fans. I know i'd be worried about dwight howard if in 2-3 years he was about the same as this past year.
Let's assume that he'll be the same when he's fully healthy again since his year following the title was about the same when he was actually on the floor...he was still one of the best players in the league (top 5 IMO) and easily the best 2-guard after Kobe. That's nothing to sneeze at, and it was and is enough to win another ring. Also Wade is markedly different than Lebron or Howard in that he's 3-years older and had 3 years of college ball, so he's of course less likely to see the steep improvement that comes when a major HS talent adjusts to the NBA properly. I mean if you're going to pick anything to nitpick about Wade's game it's that he can't shoot the 3, and he doesn't lock-down on the ball like he has the potential to. The former is something he will have to work on if he wants to extend his level of play into his 30s like pretty much all perimeter players have to the NBA these days, and and the second is a complaint you could make about the majority of NBA stars. He has played good defense at times, but he's often carrying quite a bit of the load offensively and you know how that goes. Guys like Kobe and MJ who can carry a team on offense and lock down on the other end are a rarity in the NBA these days, and I don't think Wade is egregiously bad enough to make this the huge mark against him. When his team was winning, he played D well enough, this last year when he was hurt, not so much but the team was terrible on the whole and he's been fighting injuries. He does still turn the ball over a bit much but he makes up for it in getting his team easier shots by getting into the lane so much.