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tell me if this would be overtraining

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by bach, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    I totally agree with Why and Milhouse. Unless your goal is to be Mr. Olympia, why are you training like Mr. Olympia? For general health and fitness a program of progressive strength training using old-school barbell squats, press, deadlifts, pushups, dips, etc. is a heck of a lot better than any bodypart split routine that may try to make you look pretty but is actually pretty useless in any real world application.

    Check out the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and look into CrossFit and you'll find workouts that are both functional and aesthetically pleasing in the end. Plus, you'll be able to lift heavy shit around the house.

    Mark has a forum here: http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36

    A detailed explanation of CrossFit is here: What is CrossFit? and there are chapters all around the country. I've been doing it for a month after doing Starting Strength since the beginning of the year and I'll never go back to a regular gym and "personal trainers" who advocate bodypart splits and tell you not to squat below parallel.

    All links WFS



    Old school? Old school makes you look like Steve Reeves. (BTW you should wear the old style briefs too).

    You want to look like that or Jay? Enuff said.
     
  2. Rand B

    Rand B Well-Known Member

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    Bach:

    Bi or Tri/wkly, no divvy. <3/4 hr. to obviate cortisol predom.

    R.B.
     
  3. The Transporter

    The Transporter Senior member

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    Old school? Old school makes you look like Steve Reeves. (BTW you should wear the old style briefs too).

    You want to look like that or Jay? Enuff said.


    Not sure who Jay is and probably don't want to look like him anyway, especially if he's Mr. Olympia. If all you're doing is bodybuidling I'd love to invite you to a CrossFit workout and see you do a Filthy Fifty.

    For time:
    50 Box jump, 24 inch box
    50 Jumping pull-ups
    50 Kettlebell swings, 1 pood
    Walking Lunge, 50 steps
    50 Knees to elbows
    50 Push press, 45 pounds
    50 Back extensions
    50 Wall ball shots, 20 pound ball
    50 Burpees
    50 Double unders


    Or maybe try this:

    "Fight Gone Bad!"

    Three rounds of:

    Wall-ball, 20# ball, 10' target (reps)
    SDHP 75# (reps)
    Push-press 75# (reps)
    Row (calories)

    In this workout you move from each of the five stations after a minute. The clock does not reset or stop between exercises. This is a five-minute round from which a one-minute break is allowed before repeating. On call of "rotate," the athletes must move to the next station immediately for best score. One point is given for each rep, except on the rower where each calorie is one point.


    You'd definitely be in better shape physically and aesthetically after these types of workouts than someone who just trains for bodybuilding.
     
  4. Eason

    Eason Senior member

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    If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?
     
  5. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?

    I believe this is called willful blindness.
     
  6. liyon

    liyon Member

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    "If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?"

    Looking like a male model has just as much to do with diet than it does with working out. The people who look a bit chubby just don't bother with restricting their diets. The fact they can get through a crossfit workout means they are fit, period. Though it doesn't necessarily mean they are "healthy".

    You can exercise anyway you like, but figure out what you want out of it, then pursue those objectives. Some people want to look like male models, other want to bodybuild, still others just want to be as functional as possible. There's really no need to knock someone if they want to do 10 sets of bicep curls every workout! Just realize it might not be as effective as you think it is.

    As for overtraining, a good gauge is whether you are actually getting stronger. If you are consistently improving each week then keep on going. If your workouts are really tiring you out and it's not something you look forward to, then reduce your poundage and/or workload and work back up again.
     
  7. Eason

    Eason Senior member

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    I'm only responding to someone's ridiculous claim of "You'd definitely be in better shape physically and aesthetically after these types of workouts than someone who just trains for bodybuilding." in the most obvious way I could.
     
  8. liyon

    liyon Member

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    "i've been doing full body workouts every other day for a couple of months and it takes me about an hour and 20 minutes to get through the routine. while this functions ok, i want to try splitting up the workout, so legs/lower back (i say lower back because of deadlifts) on day one, probably around 14 sets , and upper body on day 2, probably around 18 sets."

    Just read the original topic again. I'm no expert, but I've read a few things, so take my advice f what it's worth.

    You should not be taking that long to do your workouts. A 1.5 hour full-body workout every other day will lead to overtraining. Your workout should be 1 hour max including rest periods.

    What is your actual workout? Care to post it on here.
     
  9. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    You should not be taking that long to do your workouts. A 1.5 hour full-body workout every other day will lead to overtraining. Your workout should be 1 hour max including rest periods.

    What is your actual workout? Care to post it on here.


    Rubbish! Arnold used to do 20 to 30 sets per workout for more than every alternate day. I suppose he "˜overtrain' to become multiple time Mr Olympia.
     
  10. Shraka

    Shraka Senior member

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    Rubbish! Arnold used to do 20 to 30 sets per workout for more than every alternate day. I suppose he "˜overtrain' to become multiple time Mr Olympia.

    He also took steroids.

    Some of you guys are nuts! Most articles and advice from professionals tell you to keep weights to about an hour, every second day. I know that for me, after doing an hour workout I feel totally drained. I also only do each muscle group once per week (except abs, which I do as a warmup every session). My weekly breakdown looks like this:

    Monday: Middle & Upper Back + Biceps
    Tuesday: Shoulders + lower back + weighted side oblique workout
    Thursday: Legs (Quads, Hamstrings, calves)
    Friday: Pectorals + Triceps
    Saturday: 1 hours swim
    Sunday: Running
     
  11. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    He also took steroids.

    Some of you guys are nuts! Most articles and advice from professionals tell you to keep weights to about an hour, every second day. I know that for me, after doing an hour workout I feel totally drained. I also only do each muscle group once per week (except abs, which I do as a warmup every session). My weekly breakdown looks like this:

    Monday: Middle & Upper Back + Biceps
    Tuesday: Shoulders + lower back + weighted side oblique workout
    Thursday: Legs (Quads, Hamstrings, calves)
    Friday: Pectorals + Triceps
    Saturday: 1 hours swim
    Sunday: Running



    Really? You got evidence on that? If so, why don't you produce it?

    I bet Governator will get sacked if it was known he was repeatedly taking illegal substances to win sporting events. Look at Slick Willy and his marijuana and Lewinsky gate scandal. How can a man like that a state with an economy that can rival other nations.

    What exactly did you do for one hour? Unless you are really training balls to the walls, I don't see how you can claim to be totally drained.

    A good chest workout would involve doing heavy flat bench or flat dumb presses. They should be so heavy that your male boobies would be so engorged with blood that Pam Anderson would be envious. You would then follow up with flys and incline bench. You are talking about 5 good sets of exercise.

    There should be plenty of supersets, drop sets, pre- exhaust and rest pause techniques. If you just do standard 6 reps of 3 sets, then my friend, you cannot claim to be totally exhausted.

    After a good chest workout, your triceps would be blasted and you can only do biceps.

    So tell me: Have you been doing that? If not, can you say you feel totally drained? You guys should really workout. Then you would know what is real exhaustion and you will have new found respect for Jay.
     
  12. Eason

    Eason Senior member

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    beasty I'm going to need you to post a picture of yourself if I'm going to continue reading your posts.
     
  13. rjmaiorano

    rjmaiorano Senior member

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    Really? You got evidence on that? If so, why don't you produce it?

    I bet Governator will get sacked if it was known he was repeatedly taking illegal substances to win sporting events. Look at Slick Willy and his marijuana and Lewinsky gate scandal. How can a man like that a state with an economy that can rival other nations.


    HUH? Arnold has admitted to using anabolic steroids. While advocating against them.
     
  14. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    HUH? Arnold has admitted to using anabolic steroids. While advocating against them.

    Really? Does it mean Ben Johnson is fit and competent to be PM for Canada?

    I know it is in vogue to demolish a society's idols but come on!
    Its Arnold we are talking about. I mean he played a large part in popularizing bodybuilding in America! He is a bona fide Hollywood megastar! And if the laws are tweaked, I bet he and Palin can get more votes than McCain and Palin.
     
  15. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    beasty I'm going to need you to post a picture of yourself if I'm going to continue reading your posts.

    What has that got to do with anything?
    If you claim to work in a gym, you would know that is the proper way to workout and not do 3 sets of 6 or 8 or 10 all the while.

    And the best part of training balls to the walls is the pushing beyond a sticking point.
    For example, your last chest press may yield you 8 reps but if you push yourself, you can do 10 reps and maybe 1 or 2 half reps.
     
  16. rjmaiorano

    rjmaiorano Senior member

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    Really? Does it mean Ben Johnson is fit and competent to be PM for Canada?

    I know it is in vogue to demolish a society's idols but come on!
    Its Arnold we are talking about. I mean he played a large part in popularizing bodybuilding in America! He is a bona fide Hollywood megastar! And if the laws are tweaked, I bet he and Palin can get more votes than McCain and Palin.


    What do you mean really? You're the one who challenged another to produce evidence. Arnold using steroids is a known fact, its out there as public knowledge.

    What this has to do with Ben Johnson and his Stanozol I don't know.
     
  17. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    What do you mean really? You're the one who challenged another to produce evidence. Arnold using steroids is a known fact, its out there as public knowledge.

    What this has to do with Ben Johnson and his Stanozol I don't know.


    I mean:

    Produce this "˜known fact' that Arnold deliberately cheated to attain personal sporting glory.
    If this "˜known fact' is true, then why did it not deter Arnold from attaining higher political office. If so, maybe OJ can be the next Governor of Florida or even POTUS?
     
  18. Eason

    Eason Senior member

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    What has that got to do with anything? If you claim to work in a gym, you would know that is the proper way to workout and not do 3 sets of 6 or 8 or 10 all the while. And the best part of training balls to the walls is the pushing beyond a sticking point. For example, your last chest press may yield you 8 reps but if you push yourself, you can do 10 reps and maybe 1 or 2 half reps.
    I know what the "proper" way(s) to do any kind of workout is depending on your goals, I'm directing my questions to you because you talk about BB workouts all the time because they make you look "like Jay", so obviously I'm interested in seeing your picture since you must look like Jay Cutler. If you don't look like him (or even remotely impressive, which would be a better standard), then please shut up about how awesome your training routine is since it is the only benchmark to determine whether you're full of crap or not. I won't even get started on your bizarre non-sequitor strawman argument about Schwarzenegger's use of steroids. He admitted to using steroids in his 1977 booklet: “I will not speak for my colleagues, but I will write of my experience with tissue-building drugs. Yes, I have used them, but no, they didn’t make me what I am. Anabolic steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest. I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up.”
     
  19. Nil

    Nil Senior member

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    I mean: Produce this ‘known fact’ that Arnold deliberately cheated to attain personal sporting glory. If this ‘known fact’ is true, then why did it not deter Arnold from attaining higher political office. If so, maybe OJ can be the next Governor of Florida or even POTUS?
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7035676/
    If things were as he said, he didn't cheat since they were legal but there is no doubt he took steroids. Anyways, here's a picture of Arnold enjoying a non-performance enhancing drug: [​IMG] There's a video out there of it also.
     
  20. beasty

    beasty Senior member

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    I know what the "proper" way(s) to do any kind of workout is depending on your goals, I'm directing my questions to you because you talk about BB workouts all the time because they make you look "like Jay", so obviously I'm interested in seeing your picture since you must look like Jay Cutler. If you don't look like him (or even remotely impressive, which would be a better standard), then please shut up about how awesome your training routine is since it is the only benchmark to determine whether you're full of crap or not.

    I won't even get started on your bizarre non-sequitor strawman argument about Schwarzenegger's use of steroids. He admitted to using steroids in his 1977 booklet: "I will not speak for my colleagues, but I will write of my experience with tissue-building drugs. Yes, I have used them, but no, they didn't make me what I am. Anabolic steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest. I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up."


    Wrong! I never said I look like Jay or Ronnie or impressive for that matter. I am saying the advice and routine of Jay or other professional bodybuilders are logical, effective and certainly superior to the cockamamie ideas touted here. I mean you have guys like why who probably will advocate training left biceps with left calves and traps as an effective bodybuilding regime. And the poor ignorant sops will believe it. Ha!

    There is totally nothing wrong with doing a full body split. This is not the domain of pro bodybuilding only. I have explained how it works. I have also explained how training balls to the walls to exhaustion is correct because it exhausts your muscles and your muscles will have to grow and adapt to meet your next workout. Those who oppose to this principle are the same lazy ass dingus who does biceps every other workout and not balls to the walls of course.

    Training like that of course won't make you look like Jay but it is certainly more effective than the aforesaid biceps workout.

    You should enroll yourself in some community college course on understanding English and concepts.

    Thanks for your help on the Governator. This confirms his accomplishments are solely due to his abilities and steroid plays a minimal probably 0.0000001% contribution to his accomplishments. This would silence Shraka's misguided views that Arnie's 30 set workout which took in excess of 1.5 hours and probably on a daily basis was fueled by chemical substances. It was fuieled by Arnie's rock solid determination and sheer force of will. This is the same hallmark of success that can be found in Dorian, Lee, Ronnie, Jay and others. I am sure this trait can be found in many successful people around the world from Lew Ham to Buffet. All those lazy ass dorks here who thinks doing 3 sets of biceps curl every other workout should take note. Thanks for your support.
     

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