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Talking stocks, trading, and investing in general

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by mikeman, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    If I was a doctor, I don't think I'd readily admit I'm a chicken and afraid of lawyers.



    Indeed, even more reason not to take risks. And malpractice insurance is not required of an MD, in fact it's a growing trend to go without.



    This is certainly another factor... but 17 years? It doesn't account for that large a gap.

    Often not, but modernization can have the reverse effect. I see this in my field constantly. The technology moves faster than any single person can keep up with, so everyone ends up with splintered knowledge sets. It wasn't that way 15 years ago where you could get your head around most of it, not possible anymore. New forms of automation emerge, but they are surpassed with the expansion of available knowledge.
     
  2. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Doctors have no problem admitting their feelings about lawyers. And often many other things I'd rather they didn't share with me :).

    I haven't actually met an MD without malpractice insurance.

    As you point out in your last point, that is also a big factor. There is a huge degree of overspecialization.
     
  3. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    I'm not a doctor but I employ them. Anyone that claims a doc is working without malpractice is full of shit as all credentialing requires proof of insurance and assurances it will be kept in place. I can tell you everyone from CNAs/PCTs to the highest paid surgeon constantly has litigation on their minds. In the last six weeks I've had three lawsuit threats. It's pretty pathetic really as most times it's just someone who doesn't want to pay their bill. One of those three cases signed off our standard release for 1.4k. That will tell you how strong they felt their case was and from my side 1.4k is like one hour of outside legal billing so no doubt where that one was headed.

    On the opposite side a Chicago med-mal attorney has a vacation house in my development. He also owns the top two floors of the co-op he lives in on the Gold Coast. Some of the art work in his house down here is worth 500-900k each. I think I should have gone to law school.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  4. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Medical Malpractice is a bit too much of a slimy industry for me.

    What you're saying aligns with what I've heard though. I think if you asked youd find it consistent with what I said, that doctors aren't afraid to update their procedures because of malpractice lawsuits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    They basically have to update or malpractice suits are assured. The "standard of care" is not a static thing and using something as your SOP that is no longer a best practice is probably going to end you up in trouble at some point.
     
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  6. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Exactly. But I've also heard many cases where doctors were using the current best practice and still lost lawsuits, hence why many just consider it a gamble.
     
  7. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    In my experience the goal of the defending party is to stop it from going to trial. If it gets in front of the jury you can pretty much figure the plaintiff is going to win in med-mal. It's a pretty horrible system and there's nothing else like it in the civilized world. I know I'm being pollyanna-ish but the goal should be a speedy determination of fact by expert parties and then an expedited process to get relief to the injured party (if there is one.)

    "Statutory claimants" is another sin against god and needs to go. For instance, say a son and father have hated each other for 30 years and have had zero contact in that time due to the hate. If the father dies due to alleged mal-practice this son, who is basically a hated stranger at this point, has automatic standing and will get a portion of any award to the deceased's estate. That might vary by state a bit, and I might not be summarizing all the nuances correctly, but I know from experience the basics here are correct. Also, the number of statutory claimants will inform any out of court settlement. I was involved in a case with eight statutory claimants (seven kids and a widow) and our attorney and the insurance rep explained how juries like to think, "Okay, this is a 20k case, so we'll give 20k to each person." So instead of a 20k case settling for 20k the jury finds a 160k award in this example.

    It's seriously messed up.

    Canada, as I'm familiar there, has strict non-economic limits on med-mal cases, and sadly also based on experience, the "standard of care" is far lower than in the US.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  8. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Great explanation Piob
     
  9. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    My father got hit with a malpractice case after he retired. Someone in his lab screwed up a test for testicular cancer, putting clean tissue on a slide instead of the tumor-- and they came after the one with the most trouble-free insurance even though all he'd done was say that there was nothing on that particular slide. Two or three days of discovery, and they wound up settling-- for the amount that his insurance was contracted to pay. Surprise!

    Oddly, the person driving the suit was neither the patient (who was dying quite quickly) or his wife, but his girlfriend who was probably getting less action than she wanted.

    I know there are plenty of cruddy doctors who ought to be dragged through dirt, but there's also a lot of friction in this system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  10. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    There are too many lawyers.
     
  11. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    IBB. ~300 --> ~ 265 in the last month. Did not make that buy but considering it again.
     
  12. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    I've got my buy set to around 260 and under. Not based on any particular reason, just whatever I felt like.

    Today I trimmed some DIS stock at 94 that I bought at 91. Have reset the buy around 91-92 again and will buy and sell little amounts if it fluctuates around that.

    Also bought a decent chunk of TSLA today around 200. If it moves up a few % today I'll probably just sell and take the profit, otherwise will hang in for the week and see what happens on the report and Friday's 'announcement'.

    GLF dropped about 15%, but then SPI went up about 15% so I basically netted out to zero on those two today.
     
  13. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Eh, I've "heard of" lots of either outlier, or inaccurately reported, cases in pretty much every field of law that don't fairly represent where the mean really is. For some unfathomable reason, the lore within every business sector tends to be about how wildly unfair the standards applied to their particular niche are.

    I've represented plenty of doctors, and a few groups of doctors. While there are plenty of docs I think the world of as people, in general my experience has been that they at best have no more business sense or moral compass than anyone else, and carry the added burden of a deep, often blinding sense of arrogance and entitlement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
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  14. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    While I agree that all too often opinions are formed from the outliers I can tell you with 100% certainty that US consumers of healthcare are, compared to their OECD counterparts, sue crazy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Don't doubt it. Serious question, since medical malpractice is a subject about which I have limited personal knowledge:

    Do you think that's more a function of the state of the law with respect to medicine, the state of the industry, or just general Murican litigiousness regardless of industry/subject matter?
     
  16. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    My educated but layman's opinion? Mainly #1 and #3 but something else also.

    I have a general paradigm theory but keep in mind this is just the ramblings of an idiot. There's little doubt a great many consumers of US healthcare feel "the system" rips them off at every step. The majority seem to hate US healthcare, feel it's run by criminals and scoundrels, and they're just one step away from bankruptcy should they need to access the system for a serious matter. By contrast their OECD counterparts, at the very worst, feel their system is far superior and more equitable than the best known healthcare system in the world, namely ours. They quite often seem to feel their system is in fact without peer (I'm sure you've seen me interact with Canadians about their system here.)

    So the degree and nature of litigiousness in the US healthcare consumer market is driven by a mixture of ill feelings from the consumer and facilitated by the current state of the law and marketing by med-mal lawyers as those guys are making huge bank. My friend I mentioned earlier? His website enumerates about two dozen large settlements and summarizes that in the last decade he has obtained $140 million in settlements for his clients. He's a sole practitioner, so even if his overhead is 50%, that means he's cleared about $20 million in the last decade.
     
  17. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Senior member

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    I continue to be a pussy on NVDA and continue to miss out. Was finally ready to bite the bullet at around 64-65 last week but just couldn't get myself to buy something at that valuation.

    Now it's at 70.

    FML.
     
  18. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    Basically a penny stock at this point but today SUNE jumped about 75%!
     
  19. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    MZN is really turning into a cespool of fakes. They're at EBAY level. They're doing lip service on it, and importing stuff directly from Chinese sellers by the container load.

    It's putting tons of reputable US businesses out of business daily.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-counterfeits-put-mans-business-140007731.html

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/amazons-chinese-counterfeit-problem-is-getting-worse.html

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/25/amaz...ak-havoc-on-artists-and-small-businesses.html



    Common sense would say they need to temporarily ban Chinese sellers. And in addition, stop the ability to attach to listings. It would wipe out 80% of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  20. stimulacra

    stimulacra Senior member

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    Caveat emptor = “Fulfilled by Amazon”
     

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