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Talking stocks, trading, and investing in general

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by mikeman, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    No ones investment time horizon is 40+ years. That's just financial media marketing you all those index funds. Your behavior would be extremely different when your 401k became 200.5k all while people left and right are getting pink slips.

    Everyone has a plan until they take it on the chin.
     
  2. brokencycle

    brokencycle Senior member

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    I don't know about that... my balancing may change over time, but it would be extraordinarily difficult times before I withdrew anything from my 401k or IRA funds.
     
  3. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I'm not even sure what the first part means, but lots of folks manage to stick to long-term plans in the face of short-term pressures -- in this context and many others. That may not be your make-up, but it's silly to project your own mindset onto everyone else.
     
  4. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

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    I am curious what members here think about borrowing the maximum from 401(k) for first time home buyers. (Plus, can you really get anywhere today in CA with $50k down? LOL..sure it would help.)

    I am maxing out my contributions again this year.

    At the beginning of my career this sounded really great. But the more I am reading and exposing myself, I am beginning to get mixed feelings. If I really intend on buying a home later down the road, why not contribute enough to get the company match and save the rest?

    I remember reading here before that some individuals only contribute enough for the match. Why? Off the top of my head I can think of a few reasons e.g. plan sucks, planning on a large purchase, you do not plan on staying long in the company (but for this one there is always the rollover options)
     
  5. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Everyone's situation is different, but you've set up a boolean choice that may not really exist.

    If you're saving up for a down payment and are really in a position of choosing between stockpiling cash for that purpose and contributing to your 401K above the company match, a case can be made for doing the former.

    But another choice would be to economize in other areas and do both, of course. While the tax benefits of contributing to your 401K rather than taking post-tax dollars now will depend on many factors, one strong argument for contributing the maximum now is that pre-tax contributions you fail to make now can't be made up later. Conversely, you can always ease off on contributions later if you feel like you have "too much" in your 401K
     
  6. otc

    otc Senior member

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    Generally you only contribute up to the match before moving to other retirement accounts (like roth/trad IRAs) and short term savings.

    If you have enough income to keep contributing past the match after maxing your roth IRA and short term savings goals, I don't see any good reason to do so (unless the plan is REALLY terrible).

    As to the loan, it probably depends on your income and your retirement expectations. I am not sure how taxes work on those loans--do you have to pay taxes on the loan amount? Do you get to repay the loan with pretax dollars?
    If you are in a situation where after buying the home, you could continue to hit the max every year AND pay back the loan, and you were in a situation for some years before buying the home where you had to choose between saving for a down payment and maxing the contribution, I think there is a pretty good argument to be made for doing so.

    Essentially you are using the loan repayment as a way to exceed the max contribution.
     
  7. UnFacconable

    UnFacconable Senior member

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    Accepted an offer and will be starting a new job soon. Unfortunately, the 401(k) isn't through a good provider (American Funds?) so I'm not sure whether to roll my existing 401(k) into it (Wells Fargo) or not. I actually have 3 401(k)s now because I didn't want to roll them into Wells because I didn't like the investment options. I've considered rolling into an IRA but that would prevent me from future backdoor Roth IRA conversions which is something I took advantage of for the first time last year (converted a relatively small IRA into a Roth and paid taxes on it as well). I guess the question is do I give myself maximum flexibility by rolling into the new 401(k) or do I forget about every doing another backdoor Roth IRA and just roll all my existing 401(k)s into a Vanguard IRA.

    Oh, and, of course no matching at the new job, but I've never had matching so I'm used to it.
     
  8. brokencycle

    brokencycle Senior member

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    Tough to say, but I think it is crazy to get 0% matching. My wife's current employer which sucks in just about every way when it comes to pay/benefits matches 50%. The company she will hopefully will have an offer from in the next couple of days gives 7% if you do 5%.
     
  9. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    I do 401k up to match, then Roth IRA. My wife adds extra to her 403b plan as it has better funds and soon I will have to up mine to reach our savings goal. I don't know much about 401k loans.

    As for the new job and backdoor Roth, if you expecting a higher tax rate in the future, isn't converting any IRA funds to Roth funds worth paying the tax now? Again I am not in this situation but would look more into it. I don't think the backdoor goes away just because you transition a 401k to a Trad IRA. The no match thing sucks. Companies are slowly taking this away and not telling employees other than reissuing a line in the employee handbook that states this. That's what my company did prior to my joining. Saved like $80M annually.
     
  10. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    My first employer was a (profoundly mediocre) mutual fund company that took itself private. Their 401(k) required investment in their funds, which were so expensive (200bp expenses, plus lousy performance) that I wouldn't buy in. They did match contributions up to a point, but only with funds. They wouldn't let the equity in the management firm trickle down until they started having cash-flow problems. Then they started using stock to match contributions-- just when you want the clerical staff to start buying into their employer.

    I did expect them to sell out to a bank, so I actually did start contributing. Sadly, the buyout came some months after I'd started at business school, so I missed out.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  11. amerikajinda

    amerikajinda Senior member

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    Just put in your $18k and move on to your other investments.
     
  12. UnFacconable

    UnFacconable Senior member

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    There's no debate there. I'm going to max my 401(k). Only question is what I do with my old 401(k).

    Apart from retirement plans most of my new investments are going into private funds. I'm also moving from a situation where all my comp was cash to one where I have equity so the asset allocation calculus changes quite a bit. Will save less and invest less until there's an exit of some kind.
     
  13. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Sounds awfully familiar to the mutual fund boutique I worked for.
     
  14. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sorry. :(
     
  15. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    Done eating shit on EMES. Position closed. Lesson learned. General Electric anyone?
     
  16. SkinnyGoomba

    SkinnyGoomba Senior member

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    I have GE, have had it since 2011, I think it's pricey.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    I bought GE in 2012 for like 16 and change. Cashed out once it broke $20.
     
  18. chrisjr

    chrisjr Senior member

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    One of Larry Robbins' favorite ideas at the Ira Sohn conference yesterday was BKD. Has anyone diligenced this company? As mentioned earlier I invest with a minimum 1 year horizon and I quite like the prospects for this firm over the next 12-24 months. Fortress owns 51% of the float. Larry's comments were:

    - He’s still bullish on the overall market. “20 years ago, the S&P 500 was selling at 515 and somebody came up on a stage just like this one and told you it was massively overvalued.”

    - Capital is still cheap. It pays to play the theme that companies can borrow for nothing and leverage on your behalf as a shareholder.

    - 65 million elderly Americans live within 10 miles of a Brookdale facility.

    (full report here http://thereformedbroker.com/2015/05/04/notes-from-the-2015-ira-sohn-conference-part-ii/)

    Seeking Alpha notes:

    - Brookdale has a sizable real estate portfolio, where it owns 40% of its properties.

    - It’s already the largest U.S. senior living facility operator, but could juice returns with further acquisitions.

    - Activist Tom Sandell got a couple directors on the BKD board and could be one step closer to his purposed REIT formation.
     
  19. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    If you look at the news every week it seems most Americans cannot afford to retire, let alone live at BKD. So say you like the population that can afford to live at BKD, what of that population would choose to do so?
     
  20. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    Toronto, Canada
    So I'm holding a few REITS, some in Healthcare... they all seem to be dropping constantly. Could anyone please help me understand why this is happening? (interest rates?)

    I've got NLY, LXP, and had HCP and am scoping out a few others like VTR, AMT, HST, SKT, etc...



    oh and EPZM, jesus goddam, why are you doing this to me. Hey if anyone has been waiting, now's a good time to get in, seems pretty damn cheap and tends to bounce around a lot

    Really hoping TSLA drops and I can get in there. I shoulda bought more at 185 but was too scared oy
     
    1 person likes this.

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