Talking stocks, trading, and investing in general

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by mikeman, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    If we were having an upswing and this news hit, the impact would have been -10 cents. There's a lot of turbulence at the moment, so the price gets into an echo chamber on news.

    To me, this is hardly news. Everyone knew what BAC's headwinds were. In a few months, this will be seen as a buying opportunity.
     
  2. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    I disagree with every part of that sentence.

    To go after individuals, you need some evidence of fraud. You're allowed to put on a bad trade as long as you didn't knowingly put it on as a bad trade and as long as you weren't being totally irresponsibly dumb about it. Just because something didn't work out doesn't mean it couldn't have. Remember lots of people lost lots and lots of money shorting MBS before it finally worked.

    So there might be lots of people who lied to customers or wanted their banks to lose lots and lots of money but how on earth do you know that? Aside from the curious case of the fabulous Fab, there hasn't been a whole heck of a lot reported about what MBS sales/traders actually said.

    Any number of entities have spent a tons of manhours combing through emails so the fact that there have been very few prosecutions, suggests to me that there aren't a whole lot of smoking guns. I realize that you take the Zerohedge view of things that that is evidence of a massive conspiracy or something but I tend to believe that Preet Bharara, for instance, is only too happy to put banksters away. And if he hasn't tried, there just might be a reason.


    Sending people to jail or making them promise to pay billions of dollars in fines / restitution isn't going to "unwind" anything.
     
  3. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Very well said. A lot of pundits and the like make it seem like there are scores of easy criminal cases to be made against CEO's. Most of those folks have no idea how difficult and complicated it is to actually establish a criminal (or even civil) fraud case through actual evidence in case like this. In some cases it's because no fraud (at least as the law defines it) was committed. In other cases, fraud probably was committed, but it's difficult or impossible to prove.


    And yes, there's no shortage of ambitious prosecutors who would love to make their careers through such cases if they could.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  4. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    I never said it was easy, but there are hundreds of guys that knew exactly what they were doing. I mean, the low hanging fruit had to be employees of the ratings agencies.

    I personally believe politics and prosecution cross wires in these instances. Too much Wall St money going into campaigns to upset the cart. Its great for a prosecutor to make a career, but were they allowed to?

    Even if you argue the other side of this, wouldn't it be logical to have sensible regulation that provided for accountability? But after that mess, very little has really changed. That's a tip-off right there to the state of play.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  5. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Congress gave the ratings agencies certain statutory protections and immunities that make it much harder than you might think. There are also First Amendment issues.
    I hear what you're saying, and of course you're right in general that politics and prosecution sometimes overlap. But yes, prosecutors would be allowed to make those cases. Many heads of prosecutorial agencies would love to springboard their political careers by coming across as giant-killers. And many prosecutors and regulators are populists/liberals/whatever, and would love nothing more than to successfully prosecute Wall Street fat cats. It's just not nearly as easy as lots of folks who don't actually have to accomplish it themselves like to suggest.

    I agree with you about regulation. But that falls primarily to Congress. Even rule-making regulatory agencies are fairly limited in the scope of authority Congress gives them. But that point aside, prosecutors and regulatory enforcement attorneys are stuck with trying to bring cases under the rules as the exist, not as they or we believe they should exist.

    Take my statements at face value or not, since I'm just some random dude (as far as you know, anyway) on the internet. But lots of smart, dedicated folks at the DOJ, the SEC, CFTC, other federal agencies, and many state agencies all devoted huge amounts of time, money, and thought in to trying to find ways to successfully bring those cases.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  6. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    Such a n00b.

    The Bilderberg group decided in 2008 that there would be no prosecutions.


    (except for that one French guy, because the French...)
     
  7. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Come on, dude. First rule of Bilderberg Group and all that ...
     
  8. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    So that's why I didn't get invited back. :fu:

    All this time I thought it was because I went to that DSK afterparty.
     
  9. amerikajinda

    amerikajinda Senior member

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    Went on a bit of a buying spree -- picked up some Whirlpool (WHR), Masco (MAS), IntercontinentalExchange (ICE), Fith Third Bancorp (FITB), EOG Resources (EOG) and Noble (NE).
     
  10. SkinnyGoomba

    SkinnyGoomba Senior member

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    I bought PFE (pre acquisition talk), VZ, and loaded up on more BAC with the bad news on monday.
     
  11. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    All the shit I bought is RED.
     
  12. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    GWPH :slayer:

    Should have bought enough shares to trade options on them too but didn't have enough cash

    And damn eBay today
     
  13. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    I bought some more of my S&P and International funds today. Did it this morning in the red but don't really know when Vanguard puts in the buy order.

    In other news I dropped quite a bit of cash on my student loans recently so hopefully a "bailout" of those never happens. I was wondering about the risk of just paying minimum on those vs. an early payoff to possibly get some "free government money". Should be done in another 12 months then it is more into my retirement savings!!!

    Anyone have opinions on a student loan bailout? I don't understand how people who are 40 and older decide loans are a great way to pay for their worthless community college degree that will get them no where.
     
  14. otc

    otc Senior member

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    As the holder of several loans...I'm anti student loan bailout. I think it will just make it harder to get a student loan in the future (since part of why they are so easy to get is the nearly guaranteed repayment). And payment terms are already so fricking generous...

    Also...pretty sure anyone in a position to actually drop cash towards it, wouldn't actually qualify for any bailout. I could pay it all off today if I wanted...but the interest rates are so low, and I might be in full or part-time school again in the future, so I would get to postpone payments for another couple of years again.
     
  15. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    If you don't mind me asking are these undergrad or graduate loans? Mine are graduate and my rates are ridiculous. A couple are 6.55% and the ones that were 7.55% were just paid off.
     

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