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Tailoring a suit jacket too tight to button, for the sake of a better silhouette while un-buttoned?

Cayne-Abel

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Please clarify or state the point you are making so I will understand
I believe I have already clarified my/the SS employee's point, but I'll state it again: apparently, some of his customers have realized that they rarely button their jackets (not because they think it looks better, but because, as a practical matter, they typically walk around with unbuttoned jackets for whatever reason) and therefore request that their jacket be tailored so as to optimize their silhouette when unbuttoned, at the expense of making it effectively impossible or impractical to button the jacket.

As I said, I have noticed that most men do, in fact, walk around with unbuttoned jackets. Granted, not every suited man I see in court or on the street is fashion-conscious (in fact, the vast majority aren't). But I notice this even among those men who clearly are sartorially-minded, myself included.
 

Despos

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SO, your point is men don't button their jackets
 

Cayne-Abel

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SO, your point is men don't button their jackets
Is that what I wasted 5 minutes of my life for? I respect your request for clarification / elaboration, and I'm met with a flippant, sarcastic response, instead of an engaging one?
 

Despos

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Yes, read your post again and you merely point out that you see jackets not buttoned and according to SS the paradigm is since I don't button my jacket let's make it smaller to enhance the silhouette.
We should talk in a few years down the road.
 

Moose22

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Yes, read your post again and you merely point out that you see jackets not buttoned and according to SS the paradigm
Why are you feeding the troll?

And for cayne abel -- just do whatever you want. You know the folks here find the idea of a coat that doesn't fit ridiculous, but it's your coat, wear it however you want.
 

Cayne-Abel

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Why are you feeding the troll?

And for cayne abel -- just do whatever you want. You know the folks here find the idea of a coat that doesn't fit ridiculous, but it's your coat, wear it however you want.
Thank you for letting me know that I can indeed wear my jacket however I like. I wasn't looking for truisms, and I wasn't looking to be insulted ("troll").

I was interested in substantive feedback, along the lines of whether others have heard of such an idea, whether others have actually tried it, what their experiences have been, whether taking in a jacket to such a great extent results in unintended consequences, what those unintended consequences might be, etc.
 

yanagi

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I was interested in substantive feedback, along the lines of whether others have heard of such an idea, whether others have actually tried it, what their experiences have been, whether taking in a jacket to such a great extent results in unintended consequences, what those unintended consequences might be, etc.
You are aware that Despos is a master tailor, yes? So if he tells you making a jacket too tight to button for the sake of a "better" (however you define it) silhouette is "one of the dumbest things" he's read on SF, what else do you need?

To be clear, this is not to say that you can't disagree with a tailor. Of course you can. In which case, enjoy your jacket too tight to button.
 

Crispyj

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You are aware that Despos is a master tailor, yes? So if he tells you making a jacket too tight to button for the sake of a "better" (however you define it) silhouette is "one of the dumbest things" he's read on SF, what else do you need?

To be clear, this is not to say that you can't disagree with a tailor. Of course you can. In which case, enjoy your jacket too tight to button.
He's not talking about making it tighter for a better silhouette, Cayne is asking if people actually wear their suit jackets unbuttoned and has anyone tried to make the jacket more conformed since an unbuttoned jacket normally would be loose around the waist and lower back. I don't understand the hate he's getting. He's just curious to see if anyone actually tried it.
 

Cayne-Abel

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He's not talking about making it tighter for a better silhouette, Cayne is asking if people actually wear their suit jackets unbuttoned and has anyone tried to make the jacket more conformed since an unbuttoned jacket normally would be loose around the waist and lower back. I don't understand the hate he's getting. He's just curious to see if anyone actually tried it.
Thank you.
 

yanagi

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He's not talking about making it tighter for a better silhouette, Cayne is asking if people actually wear their suit jackets unbuttoned and has anyone tried to make the jacket more conformed since an unbuttoned jacket normally would be loose around the waist and lower back. I don't understand the hate he's getting. He's just curious to see if anyone actually tried it.
I don't know why you and the OP think anyone misunderstood him. It's all there in his title: TAILORING A SUIT JACKET TOO TIGHT TO BUTTON, FOR THE SAKE OF A BETTER SILHOUETTE WHILE UN-BUTTONED?

Nearly everyone, including a master tailor, has said this is a bad idea. Instead of accepting this (or ignoring everyone and just doing it anyway), you and the OP insist that the OP's been misunderstood.

People understand his question. He just doesn't like the answers.
 

Cayne-Abel

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I don't know why you and the OP think anyone misunderstood him. It's all there in his title: TAILORING A SUIT JACKET TOO TIGHT TO BUTTON, FOR THE SAKE OF A BETTER SILHOUETTE WHILE UN-BUTTONED?

Nearly everyone, including a master tailor, has said this is a bad idea. Instead of accepting this (or ignoring everyone and just doing it anyway), you and the OP insist that the OP's been misunderstood.

People understand his question. He just doesn't like the answers.
Wrong. See my second to last post for examples of substantive feedback I was looking for. Obviously, no one has an obligation to provide it, but don't sit here and tell me anyone so far actually has.
 

Despos

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Reducing the body of a jacket to be trimmer than your body measurements while intentionally wearing the jacket unbuttoned:
First thing that is sacrificed is ever being able to button the jacket and feel comfortable and not tight at the waist. This totally contradicts good sense of having a jacket made to your measurements and body type. This concept creates a visual unpleasing aesthetic buttoned or not buttoned.
Pulling at the button, wrinkles from chest and hips to the button and emphasis of love handles about the waist. The proportion of the jacket will look off as the jacket body is smaller than your actual body. If the chest is reduced as well you will be uncomfortable regardless if buttoned or not.
This concept will give the impression you have gained weight or wearing a jacket from a time you were a different size. Wearing a jacket you can't button is obvious even to the unaware or uninformed. You may be perceived as wearing the wrong size clothing which is not enhancing your style but questioning your ideas of appropriate dress and fit.
Hopefully a jacket fitted this way won't be worn for photographs or group shots when the photographer asks that all jackets be buttoned to create uniformity in the picture.
If you notice a jacket being fitted it is done so with the buttoning point fastened. When buttoned the jacket maximizes the expression of the cut and style. The jacket will be most comfortable when buttoned as it was fitted in this way.
The shape of the chest, proportion to the waist, waist suppression, fit and balance of the skirt of the jacket are maximized to express the intended silhouette when buttoned.This isn't as evident when not buttoned and the silhouette becomes blurred.
Buttoning the waist holds the jacket in place. Allows the armhole to be more fixed to the body. Allows you to move in the jacket and not the jacket moving against your body. I don't wear my lace up shoes untied because it doesn't hold the shoe against my foot and feels sloppy. I prefer to feel the jacket hugging at the waist. I am more uncomfortable with clothing that is loose than fitting close to the body. I like close fitting clothes and the feeling of a buttoned jacket. Subjective opinion.
If the jacket isn't perfectly balanced the jacket will exaggerate flaws when unbuttoned. The fronts will fall away or the back will settle on the hips while the fronts rise up. The back and skirt could flare out away from the body. The flaring will be more severe if the body is tapered more than needed.
Many SS suit fits have been scrutinized here. Small chests with bowing lapels, X pull at button, wrinkles across the back and poor balance. Not unique to SS alone. Unbutton the jacket and those issues become less apparent. Maybe SS stands for Suit Scam. I don't know; I'm just an observer of these things!
 

Cayne-Abel

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Reducing the body of a jacket to be trimmer than your body measurements while intentionally wearing the jacket unbuttoned:
First thing that is sacrificed is ever being able to button the jacket and feel comfortable and not tight at the waist. This totally contradicts good sense of having a jacket made to your measurements and body type. This concept creates a visual unpleasing aesthetic buttoned or not buttoned.
Pulling at the button, wrinkles from chest and hips to the button and emphasis of love handles about the waist. The proportion of the jacket will look off as the jacket body is smaller than your actual body. If the chest is reduced as well you will be uncomfortable regardless if buttoned or not.
This concept will give the impression you have gained weight or wearing a jacket from a time you were a different size. Wearing a jacket you can't button is obvious even to the unaware or uninformed. You may be perceived as wearing the wrong size clothing which is not enhancing your style but questioning your ideas of appropriate dress and fit.
Hopefully a jacket fitted this way won't be worn for photographs or group shots when the photographer asks that all jackets be buttoned to create uniformity in the picture.
If you notice a jacket being fitted it is done so with the buttoning point fastened. When buttoned the jacket maximizes the expression of the cut and style. The jacket will be most comfortable when buttoned as it was fitted in this way.
The shape of the chest, proportion to the waist, waist suppression, fit and balance of the skirt of the jacket are maximized to express the intended silhouette when buttoned.This isn't as evident when not buttoned and the silhouette becomes blurred.
Buttoning the waist holds the jacket in place. Allows the armhole to be more fixed to the body. Allows you to move in the jacket and not the jacket moving against your body. I don't wear my lace up shoes untied because it doesn't hold the shoe against my foot and feels sloppy. I prefer to feel the jacket hugging at the waist. I am more uncomfortable with clothing that is loose than fitting close to the body. I like close fitting clothes and the feeling of a buttoned jacket. Subjective opinion.
If the jacket isn't perfectly balanced the jacket will exaggerate flaws when unbuttoned. The fronts will fall away or the back will settle on the hips while the fronts rise up. The back and skirt could flare out away from the body. The flaring will be more severe if the body is tapered more than needed.
Many SS suit fits have been scrutinized here. Small chests with bowing lapels, X pull at button, wrinkles across the back and poor balance. Not unique to SS alone. Unbutton the jacket and those issues become less apparent. Maybe SS stands for Suit Scam. I don't know; I'm just an observer of these things!
Truly a fantastic, well-informed and generous response. Thank you.

With regard to suit supply - I don't want anyone to think that this employee's comment was anything other than an aside remark, or that this is something that SS tailors do regularly. He didn't push it on me, he didn't speak as though it was common practice... He didn't even suggest I attempt it. He just said that it's something that a few of his clients have requested.
 

Despos

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C&A, Thank you and I appreciate your kind word!
As I said in my first post, my comments aren't directed to you but to Suit Supply.
If a client asked me to do this I would back away as I'm not the tailor for this project.
"Since you don't button your jacket, let's make it a size smaller to enhance the look and make sure you never will be able to button it" seems so illogical to me.

That SS would pander to someone with a request like this....Let me put it this way. If I accepted making a suit this way I would question my integrity as my experience says I know better and I'm not in good conscience serving the client to his best advantage.
 

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