Swedes

[epa]

As I have seen that there are some Swedes in this forum, just a question: I have a Swedish background, but I have been living in Spain for the last twelve years, so I am not sure about how style is in Sweden right now. However, I have the feeling that in Sweden, people used to be vary afraid of being considered "snobs". Actually, when people in Sweden buy an expensive car or spend money on things like shoes, suits, etc., it seems to me that they always need to justify it in some way, explaining why they really need it -for example, arguing that a Mercedes ends up being much cheaper than a Toyota because it is supposed to be of such a quality that it will never need any reparations, which is just BS, by the way-, instead of recognising that they spend their money on this stuff just because they like it. Also, "flashy" or "tacky" things that we frequently do in Spain, like having our MTM or bespoke shirts personalised with initials on the chest or cuff, unbuttoning the functional sleeve buttons (well, at least one of them) on the jacket, etc., appear to me as uncompatible with the Swedish character. Also, for example, here in Spain, almost everybody I know who can afford it has some kind of cleaning lady paid to look after the flat (and, what is maybe most important, to iron the clothes) a couple of hours per week. None of my Swedish friends have that, I think, and I feel that this is at least partly due to this socialist (?) idea that having a houskeeper (even a part-time one) is just too "aristochratic". Maybe I am wrong. Any opinions from the other Swedes on SF?

 

[Clark]

Yes, unfortunately you are correct

For example IKEA is entirely built upon that you can never show off any sort of wealth, which runs through there whole company and there products. Ironic as it is probably the wealthiest company in Sweden, if not the world.

Another example is our former prime minister. He, being socialist, used his earned money and a moderate loan and bought a small farm estate and built a mansion-like building on it. Nothing fancy at all, but still generated a lot of critic from the public and especially the press. Very silly.

But the jealosy towards wealth have lessen a bit by late, it was a lot worse in the 80s.

People do buy a lot of expensive clothes over here, but I wonder when they wear them. You seldom see a quality shirt being worn daily, jeans and t-shirt being the choice for most during work hours. A suit seems to be only for funerals and weddings, and they are never bespoke. A general fear of colour is also the standard, black being the only choice. And, apart from the big cities, it is almost impossible to find some quality shoes, and even harder to find someone wearing them.

I'm of course generalizing a little bit. And I'm from a smaller city, it is a little better in Stockholm I think (at least from what I've seen visiting there).

/C

 

[fredrik80]

Clark is right on the spot, swedes are very concerned about what others think about them, and often go to great lengths to avoid situations that might be potentially awkward. This is also the reason swedes dont want to spend money on nice clothes for themselves, they're afraid of what other people will think of them.

That's why swedish designers always design (in my opinion) boring basic clothes with minimal details and overinflated pricetags. That way people can spend a lot of money but it doesent scream snob at others.

The only way you can earn lots of money without having people sneer at you is to play football or win the lottery.
If you work hard and get rich people people get jealous and complain (but always complaining silently ofcourse...)

When compared to Italy or Spain it's quite a contrast and i think our religious backgrounds are the cause of this. Since Sweden is a protestantic country compared to catholic italy religion has affected the countries very differently through the years.
In Italy churches are decorated beautifully with lots of gold and lavish embellishments, people get dressed in their best clothes and go to church. In Sweden churches are often a lot more toned down and i have a feeling churchgoing is more of a duty than a voluntary choice (for some)
This has rooted itself in many swedes for centuries i think, and is partly responsible for the non-dolce vita attitude found here. It's basically a shame-issue caused by the religion.

 

[Jerry52]

Hello

I'm not Swedish or of Swedish ancestry but I find this discussion very culturally fascinating. It told me something I didn't know and in a way the Swedish "quirk" of self-consciousness while it might be frustrating for Swedes is rather refreshing in the sense that it's reassuring that in fact there still CAN be cultural differences in a world made so blandly homogenous by instantaneous communications such as internet and global television.

Even though Swedish folks generally aren't Catholic (religion brought into the mix by one of the other posters) they apparently share with Catholics an inbred sense of guilt- I'm Catholic and there's the running joke that Catholics are raised with guilt built in!

Perhaps the Swedish sense of frugality and practicality account for the fact that there seem to be relatively few imports from Sweden, from an innovative and hard-working people.

Volvo and Saab autos are perhaps the only imports that many Americans would recognize from this land, and regrettably because of corporate greed and globalization, both brands are now suffering from American ownership.

Actually I own a 1991 Volvo 240, the best Volvo model ever made and from a time when Volvo was really Volvo.

I've had the pleasure of visiting Lindsborg, KS perhaps the largest Swedish settlement in the USA, and am fascinated by the finely crafted little painted folk horses that the Swedes have made for generations- I forget the name of these unique crafts.

One of my favorite singers is Sophie Zelmani, very innovative in the genre of contemporary folk.

My two cents...

Jerry

 

[WN2]

I'm not Swedish but as a Finn I have been there something like 50 times. I'd say that money and especially old money is much more visible in Stockholm than it is in Helsinki. The younger Swedes also have a reputation around here as being well-off and showing it. Stureplan's elitist night scene is (or was) a frequent source of articles in Finnish lifestyle magazines. The selection of designer clothing and other items in Stockholm is quite remarkable for a city of that size. Of course, it might be that Finnish standards are even lower..

Swedes are Lutherans, and modesty has always been a virtue in Lutheran circles. Swedes (and to a lesser degree, Finns) are also very Social Democratic, which is the main reason of feeling guilty about having money.

Maybe some of our Swedish members correct me if I sound just like a confused poor little brother från Östlandet

 

[dkzzzz]

Folks in Helsinki dress more diverse and colorfull than us Americans. So much for our individuality and freedom of expression.

http://www.hel-looks.com

 

[epa]

I think that the atmoshpere around "Stureplan" in Stockholm may not be very representative of what Sweden is like in general...
Considering that Catholic vc. Protestant issue, there may be something in it. Certainly, I have the feeling that here in Spain, people are far less reluctant to show wealth than in Sweden; they do not feel guilty about being rich (actually, not even if the money comes from obviously illegal business and/or from bribes...). Also, I have the impression that in Sweden, people always have to justify their expenses with the alleged "practicality" of the items they bought: "these shoes are very convenient", "this jacket is so practical"... Now, it can be difficult to justify that one spends EUR 400 on a pair of shoes or EUR 2000+ on a bespoke suit just because it is "practical".
I think that many Swedes are afraid of recognising that "I spent EUR 400 on these shoes and EUR 2000 on this suit because I like to look good and because I can afford it". Or am I wrong?

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Jerry52

Even though Swedish folks generally aren't Catholic (religion brought into the mix by one of the other posters) they apparently share with Catholics an inbred sense of guilt- I'm Catholic and there's the running joke that Catholics are raised with guilt built in!

My experience is that Catholics generally feel guilty about sex, whereas Protestants tend to feel guilty about wealth and luxury...

I grew up in a very Protestant region of Sweden, on the west coast. Being flashy was really considered bad. On the islands, there were even villages where people were supposed to avoid the use of curtains, as using curtains were supposed to be frivolous and just too much of flair. I was told that the curtains were referred to as "the underpants of the Devil" (Djävulens kalsonger) in that area.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Jerry52

Perhaps the Swedish sense of frugality and practicality account for the fact that there seem to be relatively few imports from Sweden, from an innovative and hard-working people.
Volvo and Saab autos are perhaps the only imports that many Americans would recognize from this land, and regrettably because of corporate greed and globalization, both brands are now suffering from American ownership.
I think Sweden has quite a lot of more exports than most people do realize. Just some examples: IKEA (I do not know if it is known in U.S., but in Spain it just smashed the entire traditional cheap furniture industry; it is something like the furniture version of Mens Wearhouse, I guess), Tetrapak, Ericsson, Bofors stuff (yes, Sweden actually used to export a lot of warfare equipment, although allegedly only to countries that would never think of using it, like Indonesia (!) and India (where so many politicians were bought that it became a scandal even in India!)), H&M, etc.
By the way, the founder of IKEA is currently supposed to be the richest man in Switzerland (Swedes that get rich tend to move abroad for tax reasons), but he is known to still live a simple life, shopping in low-price stores and flying in tourist class. I guess that he may even go to the local version of Mens Wearhouse for clothing. And yes, for me there is something very Swedish about that kind of behaviour.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by fredrik80

The only way you can earn lots of money without having people sneer at you is to play football or win the lottery.
If you work hard and get rich people people get jealous and complain (but always complaining silently ofcourse...)
This sounds very true to me... Actually, I believe to recall that the money you made on lottery were the only money for which you were not supposed to pay a lot of tax in Sweden! Hard work and success in business was something looked down upon and that should rightfully be punished by high taxes (. Astrid Lindgren actually ended up having to pay 102% tax on part of her income, I believe to recall...)
I really liked many aspects of Sweden, but there was something about this looking down on people who tried to be successful (unless they were football players, of course) that really screwed me up.

 

[Kent Wang]

This is very interesting from an anthropological standpoint.

It is not how I would imagine a socialist paradise. My ideal state would be socialist politically, like Sweden, but more accepting of decadence culturally.

 

[WN2]

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

Folks in Helsinki dress more diverse and colorfull than us Americans. So much for our individuality and freedom of expression.

http://www.hel-looks.com

That site is (fortunately) not a very representative sample of how people really dress here.

 

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by epa

I grew up in a very Protestant region of Sweden, on the west coast. Being flashy was really considered bad. On the islands, there were even villages where people were supposed to avoid the use of curtains, as using curtains were supposed to be frivolous and just too much of flair. I was told that the curtains were referred to as "the underpants of the Devil" (Djävulens kalsonger) in that area.

The Danes are similarly frugal, and also at the time my parents (and I) lived there 40 yrs ago, somewhat resentful of the luxury evident in Sweden. Left-over tension from WWII, where the Swedes did pretty well while the Danes suffered some.

Anyway, the Danish/north German tradition for summer cottages is that families have a shoebox-sized thing on a moor somewhere. My mother was in the process of redecorating an American-style summer cottage (Edwardian pile in the midwest), and went into a fabric shop to get some material to ship back for curtains. The amount she ordered nearly provoked heart attacks, as it could have gift-wrapped a Danish cottage with some left over.

 

[Jerry52]

This may not exactly be a "clothing" thread but all of the very thoughtful replies have made it one of the more rewarding ones to read, including great insights from epa who actually lived in Sweden.

Concordia, your post reminded me of a visit to Newfoundland, over ten years ago. It's reluctantly part of Canada, but a newer member and it's the furthest point East on the North American continent. About 3,000 miles to the West over the Atlantic is Europe! The upper reaches of Newfoundland (which I didn't visit) evidently have a scenery and climate remarkably similar to Norway!

Around St. John's, the largest city (about 100,000) the open sea is a way of life-and death. There's a rugged, brooding coastline, whales not too far offshore, and the place is INCREDIBLY cold at least half the year. The homes for the most part are tiny but tidy, the people generally poor, but they make up for the pervasive gloom by having these tiny houses painted gay bright colors and often having flower-box gardens outside their windows. The people seemed happy and hearty, the children unusually polite. There are beautiful true "wildflowers" growing along many sidewalks. I doubt you'll find many upscale clothiers in this whimsical thrifty land, but instead there's a disproportionately strong interest in culture, with two or three major independent bookstores and a plethora of artists, musicians and poets. I heartily recommend a trip to Newfoundland (in Summer!) if you want to see a remote, alluring corner of the continent!

Merry Christmas to all,
Jerry

 

[discostu004]

does anyone in Sweden still dress like Gert Jonny's?