Sustainable Menswear?

[Keith Taylor]

so only buy expensive cashmere?

I’d say the answer to this is an unequivocal yes. Personally, apart from a wonderful sleeping mask and a couple of scarves I bought from one of Mongolia’s many cashmere stores I only buy vintage cashmere (not because I’m a crunchy environmentalist but because I’m a cheapskate), and I know that the difference in quality between a well used sweater made of good quality cashmere and a new one made from short fibers sold for $50 in a high street store is stark. Good cashmere will last an age, while fast fashion cashmere will last a season.

Cheap cashmere is more of a marketing gimmick than a good idea. If all the fast fashion cashmere in the world vanished tomorrow nobody would miss out, because it’s not really any better than comparable cheaper material that doesn’t have quite the same reputation. It just sounds alluring, as it did to the cleaning lady in Seinfeld who dreamed of it as a child. “Cccccaaaashmeeeere”.

Merino wool provides four times the yield of cashmere from each animal. If you replaced Mongolia’s 30 million cashmere goats with 7.5 million sheep reared for merino wool you’d be well on the way to genuine sustainability without giving up a single ounce of material. You could even replace them with 30 million sheep and reward herders with four times their usual yield, and it would still be more sustainable than cashmere goats because sheep don’t eat the roots and flowers, which is the real source of the problem.

So yeah, I’d say we should make cashmere a luxury good again. We should stop chasing volume and price me entirely out of the market. $50 cashmere sweaters are a false economy.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Have you read anything by Bruce?

I have, actually. What useful advice he has to give is either imparted to children by their fathers or else can be easily come by through understanding this precept: follow your own style.

Everything else he has to say about rules and guidelines is nonsense, as it is with most fashion gurus. He also thinks that taste is something which arises from class, yet discounts its importance, yet quotes a Lord to prove his point; and he says one ought to be individual, and then says style lacks substance:

An Interview with G. Bruce Boyer

By Derek Guy Photo: Thierry Augustin, A&H Magazine Alan Flusser’s Dressing the Man is popularly considered to be the book to read if you’re interested in classic men’s clothing. For the regular forumite, however, a lot of the stuff in there...

www.styleforum.net

Who's paying for Bruce Boyer

From Ivy-Style, the new voice of trad on the internet, comes this interview with Bruce Boyer. A couple of my favorite snippets: . . . IS: A lot of advertisements from the heyday talk about “genuine” or “authentic” Ivy League clothing. Tell us more about the importance of wearing the right...

www.styleforum.net

He's a professional writer, and old news.

Let me put it even more clearly: Anyone who pretends to some more knowledgeable opinion about style - and simultaneously thinks that it ought to be governed by rules of any sort - doesn't understand what style is, and is extremely arrogant. Style is something spontaneous, and has nothing whatever to do with rules. It matters not an inch whether they are trumpeted by blogging authorities or emblazoned upon Ivy League, stained-glass chapels. They're all hogwash of the worst possible kind.

And even worse if they suggest we should buy cheap cashmere, because then they're simply reckless as well as stupid.

 

[dieworkwear]

I have, actually. What useful advice he has to give is either imparted to children by their fathers or else can be easily come by through understanding this precept: follow your own style.

Everything else he has to say about rules and guidelines is nonsense, as it is with most fashion gurus. He also thinks that taste is something which arises from class, yet discounts its importance, yet quotes a Lord to prove his point; and he says one ought to be individual, and then says style lacks substance:

An Interview with G. Bruce Boyer

By Derek Guy Photo: Thierry Augustin, A&H Magazine Alan Flusser’s Dressing the Man is popularly considered to be the book to read if you’re interested in classic men’s clothing. For the regular forumite, however, a lot of the stuff in there...

www.styleforum.net

Who's paying for Bruce Boyer

From Ivy-Style, the new voice of trad on the internet, comes this interview with Bruce Boyer. A couple of my favorite snippets: . . . IS: A lot of advertisements from the heyday talk about “genuine” or “authentic” Ivy League clothing. Tell us more about the importance of wearing the right...

www.styleforum.net

He's a professional writer, and old news.

Let me put it even more clearly: Anyone who pretends to some more knowledgeable opinion about style - and simultaneously thinks that it ought to be governed by rules of any sort - doesn't understand what style is, and is extremely arrogant. Style is something spontaneous, and has nothing whatever to do with rules. It matters not an inch whether they are trumpeted by blogging authorities or emblazoned upon Ivy League, stained-glass chapels. They're all hogwash of the worst possible kind.

And even worse if they suggest we should buy cheap cashmere, because then they're simply reckless as well as stupid.

Weird, after having read all his essays and books, I don't see him as a rule-based writer. He seems to be the opposite. I would characterize him more as a cultural writer. To the degree that he asserts anything, it's about basic things. Your post about buttoning points goes about as far as his points in his books.

Let me put it even more clearly: Anyone who pretends to some more knowledgeable opinion about style - and simultaneously thinks that it ought to be governed by rules of any sort - doesn't understand what style is, and is extremely arrogant.

This would be a meaningful sentence if not for the fact that you then asserted your own rule on style. And continue to do so in countless threads and posts over and over again.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

This would be a meaningful sentence if not for the fact that you then asserted your own rule on style. And continue to do so in countless threads and posts over and over again.

Saying that style is spontaneous and individual is only a rule in so far as it describes a method of defining style - it says nothing about what form that style should take, nor about what makes good style and bad.

Any of my own posts are simply my own (sometimes) friendly advice and are only facts to the degree that my own stubbornness allows me to make them the rules for my style. I do not prescribe them to others as absolutes, and I certainly don't write faux-historical books entitled 'True Style' and attempt to sell them.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

Bruce writes well. Sometimes he can be a bit curmudgeonly and sometimes he can overstate the importance of clothes, but he does write about clothes professionally so this is understandable.

He is also a very good dresser.

 

[emptym]

I don't have anyone on ignore, but I do tend to scroll past posts by NA and PF, in this thread and others. Imo, it'd be a waste of time to read their long, wrong, and pretentious posts, let alone reply to them. But I do appreciate DWW's and others' (incl KT's) informative replies to them.

 

[Panama]

Another alternative to Cashmere is Qiviut from the Musk Ox. It maybe better in blends, so why not a Qiviut/Yak mix...

 

[Panama]

A proposed solution to Mongolia's ever increasing Cashmere goat herd is Sartuul sheep...

 

[pwbower]

Where's that right-wing troll mute button again?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Yes, some of us are intemperate, obnoxious and pretentious while others are thoughtful, noble and well reasoned.

The world is often like that.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Yes, how silly of me to assume individual choice and the ability to make choices in purchases/clothing. That would be wrong and pretentious.

Have an opinion that goes against self-proclaimed experts? Don't waste your time.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I think if you're looking to make responsible decisions, then should avoid cheap cashmere. But if you want to solve the problem, then I think the government should regulate this industry.

Anyway, not looking to get into a debate on this thread. I think I've learned my lesson. CM used to be a really great forum with many knowledgeable people, but now it's just dumb arguments constantly.

I find that the SW&D side is both friendlier and more knowledgeable and open about broader issues about style, which is one reason why I spend most of my (limited) forum time over there these days.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Bruce writes well. Sometimes he can be a bit curmudgeonly and sometimes he can overstate the importance of clothes, but he does write about clothes professionally so this is understandable.

He is also a very good dresser.

He taught English lit for a few years, I believe, and his own taste - while a bit studied - seems to suit his personality.

The criticism I have of his advice is that it touts the same unhistorical tradition of where classic men's clothing come from, and uses that as a basis for establishing guidelines about how one should dress. It's the modus operandi of fashion bloggers as well, which I also find irksome.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I don’t have an issue with sustainability. I don’t have qualms about making the planet a healthier and more prosperous place to live.

What I do have a problem with are the Sahibs telling us what we should and shouldn’t buy, going so far as to say don’t buy cheap cashmere. Setting aside the relative meaning of cheap ($80 @ UniQlo is cheap to some and unaffordable to others) it smacks of a certain sense of entitlement. That there are those in life who deserve, and others who don’t. That certain fabrics and products are for us and not for you.

by the way, some of these sentiments are echoed by those who don’t seem to have a problem with the human toll associated with the production of these goods. I’m speaking of slave labor practices in many countries that produce the goods and services we consume.

if that’s immoderate, obnoxious and/or pretentious then color me guilty.

 

[Keith Taylor]

What I do have a problem with are the Sahibs telling us what we should and shouldn’t buy, going so far as to say don’t buy cheap cashmere.

Yup, supporting the environment is a breeze when you only have to entertain it as a hypothetical