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Just saw "Becoming Jane" - most of which is supposed to take place in 1795 England. The eveying grand ball was surely supposed to be their equivalent of a formal evening, I'm certain, and one should see how many different styles, fabrics and colors the elaborately dressed males wore. I know if a film such as this the creators go all out for authenticity in apparel....
I'm sure some of you out there would feel at my daughter's wedding the groom, the two fathers, and all male attendants should wear only black or possibly dark blue cutaways or business suits, as the ceremony is scheduled to begin at 4:30 but....
Regarding that extremely interesting arreticle above which tries to summarize men's formalwear decade by decade from 1900 thru the '90s, naturally extremes are sometimes featured but what I've read does try to be somewhat balanced as to what was going on. My particular After Six jacket, by the way, definitely has a '70s look but it is not one of the more extreme examples. I have, incidentally, some of the same periodical sources referred to in the articles.... I would say much of the '70s styles considered by many shops as formalwear in the '70s were based quite closely on earlier styles - in many cases about a century earlier. That business regarding the inappropriateness of one's wearing a tuxedo at any wedding whereby the ceremony takes place in a church or synagogue (or whatever) - I just can't get over that one! It occurs to me this is a "rule" with potentially epic proportions. Why, this being the case, it should surely follow that any of the millions of grooms who had taken the plunge in a religious ceremony - AND HAVING THE GAUL TO WEAR A TUXEDO simultaneously - by cracky, amid this immense lack of authenticity surely the weddings never really took place. Apparently, none of us are really married! Glad to know after 31 years I've now been enlightened. I'm now rushing to iinform my brotherabout this, in regard to his wedding of 1972. Must have been a tacky, tacky affair. All those male guests who show up in tuxedos at some of these affairs (when they interpreted the invitation as calling for them) , too - for shame. The jackets at my brother's wedding, I just noticed in the old photos, were black and actually had that revered peak (or, "peaked") lapels, but nevertheless they'd classify as those blasted tuxedos, and the ceremony definitely included religion....
Okay.... I was "inspired" by some of the more vivid comments here and decided to see what's out there in formal jackets one might consider a little more "correct" in general. Never mind the controversial issue of how formal one can get away with when it is "wedding ceremony at 4:30, followed by evening reception".... It is our only daughter's wedding after all and I do want the outfit to be fabulous!
These are absolutely authentic, I'm sure. They still have leather soles with the Gucci logo on them and they have it inside, etc. I'm wondering about the metal decoration. It's not the standard decoration I see on recent Gucci loafers or another one I'm finding on some recent more casual Gucci shoes (nor the one with the red and green either, though the lady had one of those too from the same man), but a chain type of thing with the loops on both ends.
This metal is a bright gold color (assumably brass), even though the shoes are obviously well worn (that is evident from the soles and heels; the leather, a very simple, classic design, looks quite excellent) but is still very bright and new looking.
Questions: I can keep looking on websites, etc., of course, but right now does anyone know if Gucci made these loafers over the years with the metal decoration of various designs, such as sort of "rope?" I assumed so when I purchased these yesterday (and who knows - they could be as old as the '60s or '70s), but now looking on the web I'm not so far finding anything other than the usual few designs. So I'm wondering if something happened to the original metal decoration and these are recent replacements. Second, could Gucci loafers have a bright metal such as this? If it's brass, and I hope it is, it would have to have been laquered, I'd assume. Can't quite picture someone trying to keep polishing the decoration. A nuisance to use black shoe polish with, too, but that's how all of these loafers are. Somehow I picture a more antiqued-type brass for a Gucci loafer. Or perhaps just a brass that acquires a patina which no one wants to remove.
Ideas, please, and sorry - I don't have a good means of taking a digital photo but surely you can picture a simple rope chain sort of thing with the two C-shaped loops.
Tried on lots of midnight blue formal slacks - these are so difficult to find today but this place had so many.... The jacket I was entranced with last week turned out to be a speck large and I got down to the last pair of trousers as a possibilty and they had sort of a funny stripe.
Then I went back and started looking at complete tuxedos - a few black if they had peaked or shawl collars, and other features perhaps superior to my '70s burgandy jacket.
Got down to the very last possibilty (some tuxedos had clownish pants, some had huge or tight jackets, holes, too heavy a wool, etc.
I got something so marvelous and "timeless" I think Flusser would be proud. I should send him the bill! Even the Duke of Windsor might take notice....
Very deep but midnight blue, shawl collar in black satin, no vents, one button single breasted (I can use my Kilgour cummerbund), four buttons on sleeves. Besam pockets with no flaps and thus there are no outlines where the flaps would come down. Pants have button fly (at least no zipper to break). Excellent condition.
Excellent fit, except pants must be shortened. Beautiful fabric, with a super subtle texture. Guess what? Perhaps my absolute first choice would be a bespoke tuxedo from a Savile Row or St. James's tailor, but this one is from a tailor in Paris - the ONLY one I saw! The name is Paul Portes. Haven't found much on him on the 'net but I'll pursue further. Does anyone here have any familiarity with this shop? The label is on the opposite side of where American labels are.
The ensemble is difficult for me to date - it's oh-so classic, but the shawl is not too wide (not too narrow either) such that the full pocket for pocket square is exposed. I'd say it's not that old - perhaps '80s on? Of course if I could find out the years of the tailor it might help in dating it.... I did see a 1928 Paul Portes ad on the 'net.
No hole in lapel or collar but that's just one of Flusser's peeves. I suppose bone or fabric buttons would have made the whole thing absolute perfection but big deal! The buttons are plastic but very simple and assumably original.
I'm sure that even most purists among you might allow me to wear my black cummerbund with this ensemble, as the cummerbund is basically an accessory and it's the color of the shawl collar, and shoes.
I love French things in general so that just adds to my joy. I've come long way in my thinking in the few weeks I've posted here on this daughter's wedding issue but I hope you guys approve. As if I should care.... Hee hee.
I've looked through some vintage shops and have found nothing as as attractive or interesting as the burgandy dinner jacket I already have and have been planning to wear. Yes, I've seen some black jackets - both with peaked lapels and shawl collars - but they just don't do that much. Rather dull and bland. So far I haven't found the whole "correct" combination either - "correct" lapels, single breasted (I DO want to wear that Kilgour French Stanbury cummerbund, if possible), pockets either without flaps or at least with the whatchemacallit all around, and maybe the Flusser-loved hole in one lapel.... Let alone in excellent condition and the right fit and price. I like the idea of "midnight blue" but these are even harder to come by and, again, I haven't found one so far that meets the other requirements. Another big excuse for getting a different tuxedo jacket or dinner jacket would be one from a shop that would bring some panache to the ensemble and my own love of the garment, such as one of the great English tailors.
Well, this is one of those little projects I'll keep at 'til the event, or at least the time I might have my current great dinner jacket dry cleaned (if it really needs it). Eureka! Success! The morale of this little tale is I went back to my vintage stores today and ended up with a fabulous new tuxedo - matching dinner jacket and pants. I had considered Internet, renting, and various other options regarding the blue pants....
I purchased several years ago, from a gallery/collectibles type shop in an arts district, a quirky sterling screwball key ring with the little house screwed on one end and the skeleton key loop on the other. These features are exactly those of the Tiffany Sterling Screwball House and Key Key Ring. In fact, when I lost the little house the first time, I ordered a replacement from Tiffany's in NY and it fit perfectly. My key ring has a faint "TIFFANY & CO" and the ".925" visible on the shaft, as it should. However, it's a funky design, with the shaft for the keys to be strung on basically a twisted "S" design, rather than the standard and classic horseshoe shape, as Tiffany's House and Key Key Ring shown on their website and replicated in fakes currently is.
When I had acquired this key ring - and the shop owner had said she had a cousin who worked for Tiffany's in NY who frequently brought her things to sell (she had a few others and some Tiffany boxes) - I thought I had seen other house and key key rings of this design on eBay and elsewhere on the web, but now I'm not so sure. I went in Tiffany's in London last July and saw their house and key key rings; I don't recall if theirs was the horseshoe shape but it doesn't stand out in my memory it wasn't shaped like mine. Noticing the one currently on Tiffany's website, for $100, is the standard horseshoe shape got me to thinking - are there others like mine or was mine melted and twisted in this odd way for some reason? Since this has begun to tax my mind I've contacted several at Tiffany's in NY and they haven't found a record of their producing and selling the key ring in my "S" version, though true research would be a large fee and not worth it to me. Meanwhile, I can't now find any "S" shaped ones on eBay or through other sellers on the web. Even all the fakes I've seen on the web are horseshoe shaped.
Does anyone ever recall seeing a Tiffany Sterling Screwball House and Key Key Ring with the shaft a twisted "S?" I can't easily post a photo but surely you can imagine an "S" rather than a horshoe shape. The standard Tiffany design is shown in the following link, which I hope appears here:
http://www.tiffany.ca/shopping/item....menu=4&page=36
Mine certainly does seem to be real sterling (surely; I even polish it occasionally) and from Tiffany. Just want to know if others were made like it - if Tiffany intended some to be this design. It not, how on earth was mine made into this shape?
The gist of this is: I've been very happy to know my key ring is a true Tiffany design and I like it even more because it's the quirky, twisted "S" shape, but now I really wonder....:confused
Just acquired almost on the spur of the moment a pair of men's black Gucci loafers from a vintage clothing shop. Is there someone out there really sufficiently familiar with Gucci loafers to answer a few questions?
I'm sure some of you out there would feel at my daughter's wedding the groom, the two fathers, and all male attendants should wear only black or possibly dark blue cutaways or business suits, as the ceremony is scheduled to begin at 4:30 but....
Regarding that extremely interesting arreticle above which tries to summarize men's formalwear decade by decade from 1900 thru the '90s, naturally extremes are sometimes featured but what I've read does try to be somewhat balanced as to what was going on. My particular After Six jacket, by the way, definitely has a '70s look but it is not one of the more extreme examples. I have, incidentally, some of the same periodical sources referred to in the articles.... I would say much of the '70s styles considered by many shops as formalwear in the '70s were based quite closely on earlier styles - in many cases about a century earlier. That business regarding the inappropriateness of one's wearing a tuxedo at any wedding whereby the ceremony takes place in a church or synagogue (or whatever) - I just can't get over that one! It occurs to me this is a "rule" with potentially epic proportions. Why, this being the case, it should surely follow that any of the millions of grooms who had taken the plunge in a religious ceremony - AND HAVING THE GAUL TO WEAR A TUXEDO simultaneously - by cracky, amid this immense lack of authenticity surely the weddings never really took place. Apparently, none of us are really married! Glad to know after 31 years I've now been enlightened. I'm now rushing to iinform my brotherabout this, in regard to his wedding of 1972. Must have been a tacky, tacky affair. All those male guests who show up in tuxedos at some of these affairs (when they interpreted the invitation as calling for them) , too - for shame. The jackets at my brother's wedding, I just noticed in the old photos, were black and actually had that revered peak (or, "peaked") lapels, but nevertheless they'd classify as those blasted tuxedos, and the ceremony definitely included religion....
Okay.... I was "inspired" by some of the more vivid comments here and decided to see what's out there in formal jackets one might consider a little more "correct" in general. Never mind the controversial issue of how formal one can get away with when it is "wedding ceremony at 4:30, followed by evening reception".... It is our only daughter's wedding after all and I do want the outfit to be fabulous!
These are absolutely authentic, I'm sure. They still have leather soles with the Gucci logo on them and they have it inside, etc. I'm wondering about the metal decoration. It's not the standard decoration I see on recent Gucci loafers or another one I'm finding on some recent more casual Gucci shoes (nor the one with the red and green either, though the lady had one of those too from the same man), but a chain type of thing with the loops on both ends.
This metal is a bright gold color (assumably brass), even though the shoes are obviously well worn (that is evident from the soles and heels; the leather, a very simple, classic design, looks quite excellent) but is still very bright and new looking.
Questions: I can keep looking on websites, etc., of course, but right now does anyone know if Gucci made these loafers over the years with the metal decoration of various designs, such as sort of "rope?" I assumed so when I purchased these yesterday (and who knows - they could be as old as the '60s or '70s), but now looking on the web I'm not so far finding anything other than the usual few designs. So I'm wondering if something happened to the original metal decoration and these are recent replacements. Second, could Gucci loafers have a bright metal such as this? If it's brass, and I hope it is, it would have to have been laquered, I'd assume. Can't quite picture someone trying to keep polishing the decoration. A nuisance to use black shoe polish with, too, but that's how all of these loafers are. Somehow I picture a more antiqued-type brass for a Gucci loafer. Or perhaps just a brass that acquires a patina which no one wants to remove.
Ideas, please, and sorry - I don't have a good means of taking a digital photo but surely you can picture a simple rope chain sort of thing with the two C-shaped loops.
Tried on lots of midnight blue formal slacks - these are so difficult to find today but this place had so many.... The jacket I was entranced with last week turned out to be a speck large and I got down to the last pair of trousers as a possibilty and they had sort of a funny stripe.
Then I went back and started looking at complete tuxedos - a few black if they had peaked or shawl collars, and other features perhaps superior to my '70s burgandy jacket.
Got down to the very last possibilty (some tuxedos had clownish pants, some had huge or tight jackets, holes, too heavy a wool, etc.
I got something so marvelous and "timeless" I think Flusser would be proud. I should send him the bill! Even the Duke of Windsor might take notice....
Very deep but midnight blue, shawl collar in black satin, no vents, one button single breasted (I can use my Kilgour cummerbund), four buttons on sleeves. Besam pockets with no flaps and thus there are no outlines where the flaps would come down. Pants have button fly (at least no zipper to break). Excellent condition.
Excellent fit, except pants must be shortened. Beautiful fabric, with a super subtle texture. Guess what? Perhaps my absolute first choice would be a bespoke tuxedo from a Savile Row or St. James's tailor, but this one is from a tailor in Paris - the ONLY one I saw! The name is Paul Portes. Haven't found much on him on the 'net but I'll pursue further. Does anyone here have any familiarity with this shop? The label is on the opposite side of where American labels are.
The ensemble is difficult for me to date - it's oh-so classic, but the shawl is not too wide (not too narrow either) such that the full pocket for pocket square is exposed. I'd say it's not that old - perhaps '80s on? Of course if I could find out the years of the tailor it might help in dating it.... I did see a 1928 Paul Portes ad on the 'net.
No hole in lapel or collar but that's just one of Flusser's peeves. I suppose bone or fabric buttons would have made the whole thing absolute perfection but big deal! The buttons are plastic but very simple and assumably original.
I'm sure that even most purists among you might allow me to wear my black cummerbund with this ensemble, as the cummerbund is basically an accessory and it's the color of the shawl collar, and shoes.
I love French things in general so that just adds to my joy. I've come long way in my thinking in the few weeks I've posted here on this daughter's wedding issue but I hope you guys approve. As if I should care.... Hee hee.
I've looked through some vintage shops and have found nothing as as attractive or interesting as the burgandy dinner jacket I already have and have been planning to wear. Yes, I've seen some black jackets - both with peaked lapels and shawl collars - but they just don't do that much. Rather dull and bland. So far I haven't found the whole "correct" combination either - "correct" lapels, single breasted (I DO want to wear that Kilgour French Stanbury cummerbund, if possible), pockets either without flaps or at least with the whatchemacallit all around, and maybe the Flusser-loved hole in one lapel.... Let alone in excellent condition and the right fit and price. I like the idea of "midnight blue" but these are even harder to come by and, again, I haven't found one so far that meets the other requirements. Another big excuse for getting a different tuxedo jacket or dinner jacket would be one from a shop that would bring some panache to the ensemble and my own love of the garment, such as one of the great English tailors.
Well, this is one of those little projects I'll keep at 'til the event, or at least the time I might have my current great dinner jacket dry cleaned (if it really needs it). Eureka! Success! The morale of this little tale is I went back to my vintage stores today and ended up with a fabulous new tuxedo - matching dinner jacket and pants. I had considered Internet, renting, and various other options regarding the blue pants....
I purchased several years ago, from a gallery/collectibles type shop in an arts district, a quirky sterling screwball key ring with the little house screwed on one end and the skeleton key loop on the other. These features are exactly those of the Tiffany Sterling Screwball House and Key Key Ring. In fact, when I lost the little house the first time, I ordered a replacement from Tiffany's in NY and it fit perfectly. My key ring has a faint "TIFFANY & CO" and the ".925" visible on the shaft, as it should. However, it's a funky design, with the shaft for the keys to be strung on basically a twisted "S" design, rather than the standard and classic horseshoe shape, as Tiffany's House and Key Key Ring shown on their website and replicated in fakes currently is.
When I had acquired this key ring - and the shop owner had said she had a cousin who worked for Tiffany's in NY who frequently brought her things to sell (she had a few others and some Tiffany boxes) - I thought I had seen other house and key key rings of this design on eBay and elsewhere on the web, but now I'm not so sure. I went in Tiffany's in London last July and saw their house and key key rings; I don't recall if theirs was the horseshoe shape but it doesn't stand out in my memory it wasn't shaped like mine. Noticing the one currently on Tiffany's website, for $100, is the standard horseshoe shape got me to thinking - are there others like mine or was mine melted and twisted in this odd way for some reason? Since this has begun to tax my mind I've contacted several at Tiffany's in NY and they haven't found a record of their producing and selling the key ring in my "S" version, though true research would be a large fee and not worth it to me. Meanwhile, I can't now find any "S" shaped ones on eBay or through other sellers on the web. Even all the fakes I've seen on the web are horseshoe shaped.
Does anyone ever recall seeing a Tiffany Sterling Screwball House and Key Key Ring with the shaft a twisted "S?" I can't easily post a photo but surely you can imagine an "S" rather than a horshoe shape. The standard Tiffany design is shown in the following link, which I hope appears here:
http://www.tiffany.ca/shopping/item....menu=4&page=36
Mine certainly does seem to be real sterling (surely; I even polish it occasionally) and from Tiffany. Just want to know if others were made like it - if Tiffany intended some to be this design. It not, how on earth was mine made into this shape?
The gist of this is: I've been very happy to know my key ring is a true Tiffany design and I like it even more because it's the quirky, twisted "S" shape, but now I really wonder....:confused
Just acquired almost on the spur of the moment a pair of men's black Gucci loafers from a vintage clothing shop. Is there someone out there really sufficiently familiar with Gucci loafers to answer a few questions?
