Summer Associate at Law Firm, thinking about new clothes

[billiebob]

Originally Posted by Francisco D'Anconia

• Buton Downs will be more casual, but IMHO, without a tie or a sweather to hold up the collar, they often look better. The buttons keep the collar from flopping down and making you look like a drunk sometimes.

This is very true for me. Many of my point collar shirts just don't look good under a sport coat without a tie because the collar points either pop out of the lapels or otherwise don't appear symmetrical.

 

[gvibes]

Originally Posted by academe

+1 Better to go in a little more formal and "loosen up" as you get to know your office culture. Enjoy yourself!
Don't wear a suit half the time. People will think you're a douche (unless everyone decides to randomly wear suits half the time). You can get away with sportcoats though. This is coming from a Chicago Biglaw guy who went through a summer program. Things may be different elsewhere.

 

[gvibes]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

^^Francisco, it is hard to believe you are a partner at a big law firm considering the amount of time you have to post in this thread (don't get me wrong, it's appreciated). But you must be in the structured finance or real estate groups if you have this much time on your hands!
This is "client development" for him

 

[Francisco D'Anconia]

Originally Posted by gvibes

Don't wear a suit half the time. People will think you're a douche (unless everyone decides to randomly wear suits half the time). You can get away with sportcoats though.

This is coming from a Chicago Biglaw guy who went through a summer program. Things may be different elsewhere.

^^ This advice is suspect. The world's law offices don't have enough douches already. We need at least one more.

Originally Posted by gvibes

This is "client development" for him

I never thought of it that way. Excellent suggestion.

In all seriousness and although it's been reiterated time and time again here and elsewhere

, how you look is part of the packaging of the services you will be selling. So dressing well and approriately - being overdressedcan sometimes be almost as bad as being under dressed - is part of client development. As the OP starts out the associates and partners senior to him will be his first clients.

Sartorial packaging will intensify the image of competence, reliability, and intellect. I'm assuming the OP has these three virtues already. Dressing well will not be a substitute for them, but they will enhance the perception to the extent he has them. Compare the diamond ring in a light blue box that says Tiffany & Co. in black letters closed within a white ribbon to the same ring in a crumpled-up brown lunch bag.

And that the OP is here asking good initial and follow-up questions and seeking good sources suggests he has the virtues mentioned above. It recommeds him for the practice of law.

 

[spreadcollar]

-1. Figure out what the office climate is before going in. This will tailor your clothing search and more easily integrate yourself into the office environment. In a lot of law firms it's unheard of for younger attorneys, ergo summer associates, to be wearing a suit or tie. Should you find this to be the case, don't stick out like a sore thumb and continue to dress "a little more formal."

Originally Posted by academe

+1

Better to go in a little more formal and "loosen up" as you get to know your office culture. Enjoy yourself!

 

[ColeFieldHouse]

Originally Posted by Francisco D'Anconia

(H)ow you look is part of the packaging of the services you will be selling. So dressing well and approriately - being overdressed can sometimes be almost as bad as being under dressed - is part of client development. As the OP starts out the associates and partners senior to him will be his first clients.

It's a tricky task indeed to for your wardrobe to make you 'look like you belong' yet also 'stand out'. Better to hit the middle of the road (i.e. standard business casual) and adjust from there.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by spreadcollar

-1. Figure out what the office climate is before going in. This will tailor your clothing search and more easily integrate yourself into the office environment. In a lot of law firms it's unheard of for younger attorneys, ergo summer associates, to be wearing a suit or tie. Should you find this to be the case, don't stick out like a sore thumb and continue to dress "a little more formal."

Well, yes. I wasn't suggesting he goes in with a suit/tie if it's already clear from the interview and initial office visits that it's not that kind of office culture. "Business casual" encompasses a range of things. I would rather err on the side of "one notch above" rather than coming in below the bar, so to speak. So if there are a large proportion of staff wearing polos and cotton chinos, better to go in wearing chinos and an open-collared shirt, for example, or an open-collared shirt/tropical weight wool trousers at the beginning...

 

[retronotmetro]

My thoughts on summer associate wear (coming from an ex-LA Biglaw perspective) mirror a lot of what is posted above.

1. Wearing a shirt and tie without a coat will make you look like the copier rep. Don't do it.

2. Wearing a suit in a bus/cas office as a summer associate says "Hi, I'm a gunner." While many gunners do just fine socially and professionally, I believe that those who deliberately announce themselves as gunners often do not.

3. Most male summer associates dress in a manner that would result in them being mistaken as a sales associate if they walked into a Banana Republic or Kenneth Cole store. You can meet or top that bar easily, even on a tight budget.

I would focus the dollars on a couple of pairs of decent slacks and some shirts. You'll likely want more than five shirts so that you can rotate around laundry day/dry cleaners day. You'll want at least two pairs of dress shoes. Well maintained (read: regularly shined) inexpensive shoes are better than two pairs of good shoes that are beat to hell.

You likely won't need more than one suit for the summer since the chance of a summer associate needing one on back-to-back days is pretty small. If you want a spare suit, get something inexpensive and keep it as your emergency suit for future use. I think many attorneys have one or maybe two throwdown suits for things like depositions in skanky places or times when they consciously want to avoid wearing a nice suit. My emergency suit in my office is a Merona from Target, which has been worn for last minute court appearances about twice in the past two years. I like my good suits too much to leave them sitting in the office.

 

[mensimageconsultant]

Originally Posted by academe

Well, yes. I wasn't suggesting he goes in with a suit/tie if it's already clear from the interview and initial office visits that it's not that kind of office culture. "Business casual" encompasses a range of things. I would rather err on the side of "one notch above" rather than coming in below the bar, so to speak. So if there are a large proportion of staff wearing polos and cotton chinos, better to go in wearing chinos and an open-collared shirt, for example, or an open-collared shirt/tropical weight wool trousers at the beginning...

Right. If wearing chinos, you probably can gain a slight edge with a sharp crease and a wrinkle-resistant finish. Also, don't wear odd pants in black or navy

Likewise, if polo shirts are acceptable on any days, no black, and linen or silk therein can stand out in a good way. Consider a tie with cotton or silk.

 

[AR_Six]

This is a very useful thread... I'm a law student myself, and will have to go through the whole process of interviewing in the fall. That includes not only the interview itself, but also a variety of other songs-and-dances like wine and cheese receptions and firm tours.

Interestingly, the vibe seems significantly more casual in here than I would expect. In Vancouver at least, the wine and cheese receptions with firm representatives are attended by a lot of second year students applying for summer positions, and a few first years. The receptions are essentially an opportunity for firms to scout people outside of an interview environment, and for students to evaluate firm fit (what a firm is like and whether you want to work there) and get a bit of recognition that will hopefully land an interview or two in the following weeks. To these, the first years are dressed somewhat casually, ie collared shirt (not a polo) or perhaps a sweater with chinos, whereas the second years invariably wear suits. Interviews, meanwhile, are... interviews.

Now with that in mind, I have the summer in which to accumulate clothing for the year of jumping through hoops and attempting to seduce a worthwhile firm into hiring me next summer (I can't rely solely on my marks; they are better than average but not spectacular).

Taking some of the advice in this thread (and in accordance with my own tastes, because I think they're my favourite AEs) I just picked up a pair of Moras in brown calf. I still need (first of all) a pair of suitable plain black cap toes but would prefer to do something a little sleeker than a Park Avenue. The Soho is an option (not having seen one in person, but they look sleeker than the PA), but I'm still a student and obviously would prefer not to pay anywhere near $350.00. So suggestions on that would be nice.

Aside from that, I would say I need

2. At least ten ties in moderately conservative (though not drab) colours and patterns. I am already accumulating them.

3. At least one more suit, possibly a TaT in a windowcheck or something glenplaidish.

4. Dress shirts in various colours. I have white and light blue covered. I prefer pointed collars (even to the Dolce & Gabanna level), and I don't like the way most dress shirts tent below my chest, which is on the larger side. For example, my neck is about a 16.5, which usually translates into a 42 in Dolce & Gabanna, but my chest is about a 43.5-44. Sizing up in most dress shirts to accommodate this doesn't end up looking good in other areas; ie at my waist. I'm almost at a point where I'm thinking MTM is my only option, but again... somewhat limited funds here.

5. Pants when not wearing a suit that aren't cotton chinos. I'm in the dark. I don't know a good source, or even what I should really be doing here, since jeans (and very rarely cords) have been my staple pants throughout university. So this represents a marked shift from my comfort zone.

If anyone has any suggestions on ANY aspect of the above I'd love to hear them. Like I say, I have a good six months before this becomes at all pressing but I'd like to get a jump on it.

 

[Captain Tex]

Originally Posted by ColeFieldHouse

A year-round weight is going to feel mighty warm in the summer in most U.S. cities. Consider a tropical weight (or even half-lined) blazer if you can find one.

Can you recommend any brands that are around $250 or so? Also, any thoughts on swapping out the brass buttons if working in a law firm environment?

 

[KObalto]

nm

 

[ThaAmericanDream]

I'm hoping to revive this thread to get some advice on conservative shoes for a summer associate in a law firm that goes "business attire" Monday- Thursday.

Any good suggestions (Allen Edmonds- Park Avenues looks nice but are out of my price range since I'm still hanging on by loans)?


Thanks!

 

[ThaAmericanDream]

BTW, Here's the Cole Hahns I was planning on wearing for casual Fridays (I know expensive for my above-stated tastes, they were a gift) I'm thinking about going for Johnston & Murphys, but want to find a brand that has a wide version for around $150. These look nice, but I would need to find on sale somehow before my paychecks arrive.

 

[Imperator]

Originally Posted by ThaAmericanDream

BTW, Here's the Cole Hahns I was planning on wearing for casual Fridays (I know expensive for my above-stated tastes, they were a gift)

I'm thinking about going for Johnston & Murphys, but want to find a brand that has a wide version for around $150.

These look nice, but I would need to find on sale somehow before my paychecks arrive.

Eh, those almost look like patent leather.