StyleForum Interviews CEGO's Carl Goldberg, Part II

[archetypal_yuppie]



But that is another thing, economy vs. beauty.

And he used the therms beauty, not the economic that could be understood as you did on that way.

Do you insist on everything being 100% vicuna? Of course not. Don't be obtuse. Hand sewn shoulders are only noticeable on close inspection, and it is not an unreasonable decision, by any means, for someone to choose not to pay a marginal $100 (or whatever it may be) for that feature.

Additionally, preferences on what looks best are subjective. And I've seen plenty of hand stitching on SF that looks like ****. And even more additionally, I don't doubt Carl's view (if I'm interprating it correctly) that machine sewn stitches are more robust.

Even more additionally: I think hand stiching might look nice on a casual shirt, sure. But I think it would look innappropriate on a business shirt in many or most situations.

 

[SartodiNapoli]



Do you insist on everything being 100% vicuna? Of course not. Don't be obtuse. Hand sewn shoulders are only noticeable on close inspection, and it is not an unreasonable decision, by any means, for someone to choose not to pay a marginal $100 (or whatever it may be) for that feature.

Additionally, preferences on what looks best are subjective. And I've seen plenty of hand stitching on SF that looks like ****. And even more additionally, I don't doubt Carl's view (if I'm interprating it correctly) that machine sewn stitches are more robust.

Even more additionally: I think hand stiching might look nice on a casual shirt, sure. But I think it would look innappropriate on a business shirt in many or most situations.

Well that is your opinion but we do shirts for all the primeministers and oligarchs for that use not for sport. I am interested to see what brands are the ones that look bad to understand your position as exercise of quality improvement.

Other thing that shocked me from the interview was saying Borrelli had in some shirts horrible buttonholes. In theory those shirts are not seconds but thirds not sold by any reason to avoid comments as this one per example as the quality control is very exhaustive.

In fact the person who did the quality control onBorrelli at that time .is now a top shirtmaker that a controversial tieseller here is ruining his name all the time...

Those defective Borrellis I think can be found online at low prices. Some dishonest people did business on that, selling garments from the garbagge can when the brand was taken, i know that from first hand but is another story that can't publish.

 

[bertie]

The interview represents Carl's opinion. Many of us have interacted with Carl and find him a knowledgable and useful resource for the forum. Knowledgeable and useful persons are a welcome and enlightenling presence on SF.

Not every opinion is based on fraudulent, dumpster-crawling behaviour nor related to any other thread on the forum that has been flogged to death. If you don't have something interesting or useful to add perhaps you best move along.

 

[EliodA]

I think the main benefit of handmade shirts is not so much the better look, but comfort. The shirts I own that have handsewn armholes etc. are decidedly more comfortable to wear than machine stitched shirts. I've been told that is because handmade seams have more stretch in them than machine made ones.
If the hand stitching is so ostentatious that it would seem inappropriate to wear in a conservative business dress environment, then it's just bad quality hand stitching.

 

[hippotamus]

Dont speak for Carl, but I think he meant dont hand stitch because of hand stitch, go hand stitch because it give extra value like durability, fit, look...etc . Many shop use it as gimmick

 

[Shirtmaven]

MY opinions are based on making shirts for over 30 years.

The hand stitching debate will continue.
I would not even offer handstitching if requested and someone was willing to pay.
I have a seamstress who can make a nice hand buttonhole. It would take her too long to sew all of the buttonholes by hand.
we sometimes sew buttons on by hand.

If you stop in, I can show you the finest shirt i have ever seen,
MY father had shirts made by Lanvin. these date back to the 1970-80s
there is handwork in some very discreet spots.
The buttonholes are made by hand. compare these to what you see from Borelli and you will understand.
I will post a photo later today.
shirts from Lanvin today, look nothing like my father;s shirts.

I do offer fabric from numerous mills.
Most is sourced from North American based distributors or from secondary market resellers. Tip top is an example. of a reseller.
I import fabric directly from one mill in India. Morarjee mills was the first mill partnered with an Italian firm. Their fabric is well priced.
solid construction allows the shirt to hold up over time using commercial laundries.
I also import fabric from Mileta/erba, a mill in the Czech Republic.

Grandi and Rubenilli is the Italian mill that I work with directly. I buy from their seasonal collection. this allows me to offer fabrics that are more interesting then the usual collections offered in the in-stock swatch books

I can work with out of town customers. I ship to customers in many parts of the world.

 

[archetypal_yuppie]



Well that is your opinion but we do shirts for all the primeministers and oligarchs for that use not for sport.

Wow, all of them!? By the way, who says they are good arbiters of style or taste?

My veiw: Prime ministers certainly not, and oligarchs just want the most expensive thing.

I am interested to see what brands are the ones that look bad to understand your position as exercise of quality improvement.

I know next to nothing about "the brands." I've been using NY custom makers for several years, and before that Brooks Brothers.

...Borrelli...

OK, whatever, I don't care about Borrelli and have not seen the shirt(s). But in my experience Carl is a straight shooter.

I think the main benefit of handmade shirts is not so much the better look, but comfort. The shirts I own that have handsewn armholes etc. are decidedly more comfortable to wear than machine stitched shirts. I've been told that is because handmade seams have more stretch in them than machine made ones.

You have to ask yourself a few things:

1) Do they feel more comfortable because of affirmation bias (the heuristic wherein people tend to believe/feel/see what they think they should believe/feel/see)?
2) Does it make any sense that they're more comfortable because of stretch in the seams? Or is more likely due to the cut of the shirt?

#1 is not something I can measure.
But lets think about #2. How much can a seam possibly stretch? Do you really want a seam to stretch? If a seam is giving more than sliver of a milimeter, is that good or bad? Probably bad. And is your body able to perceive a milimeter of stretch at a seam? Probably not...

I understand that some may prefer the looks and romance of hand stitched seams, but I can't help but think that the "feel" argument is bunk. If hand stitching allows for different cuts or shaping in some way, however, I'd concede it's possible.

If the hand stitching is so ostentatious that it would seem inappropriate to wear in a conservative business dress environment, then it's just bad quality hand stitching.

Fair enough. Maybe I see it this way: If it's noticeable enough to be noticed (which ostencibly the point if it is principally an aesthetic choice, which I contend it is), then it's less favorable than machine stitching in conservative business dress.

Not saying everyone has to see it this way, but I do.

 

[johanm]

Nice interview. Would be interested in seeing some CEGO shirts in action to get a sense of the house style and silhouette (e.g. trim and clean vs. soft and relaxed).

 

[archetypal_yuppie]

I'm too lazy to take and post pictures, but maybe someone else will.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

@ Archetypal, my last post here as this is becoming hooliganism and bad educated for part of some and i avoid polemics. Not archetypal.on this last thing. Specially if some tries to convince me of a concept as water is dry while obviously is wet.

I understand he likes Shirtwaven and supports him strongly as a sport team. We see this all atound the forum, also.like to read his post on the forum as well as i defend my friends but when something is too obvious my dignity makes me stop.



We have done blind test on relatives on hand sewn shirts even at sides, where one of the two stressing machine threads can be avoided and all found this shirts softer as that is not an opinable thing, simply is that way. The economic factor is another never mentioned by Shirtwaven that i know.

I respect your freedom of speech calling it bunk as if some prefers a 3 cilinder car vs. classic V12 Jaguar, but trying to convince the first is better, not with me please. I am a perfection maniac always looking for a step forward not back.

Also sorry to say but mixing on the same sentence Alumo as synonim of same quality with a medium to low quality as Acorn is the same thing. And this last is not an opinion, is simply what is.

Again i prefer by far the first interview, was very interesting and great to read and reread.
Best

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Every thread SdN posts in proves he's nothing more than a pretentious troll.

 

[EliodA]

You have to ask yourself a few things:

1) Do they feel more comfortable because of affirmation bias (the heuristic wherein people tend to believe/feel/see what they think they should believe/feel/see)?
2) Does it make any sense that they're more comfortable because of stretch in the seams? Or is more likely due to the cut of the shirt?

#1 is not something I can measure.
But lets think about #2. How much can a seam possibly stretch? Do you really want a seam to stretch? If a seam is giving more than sliver of a milimeter, is that good or bad? Probably bad. And is your body able to perceive a milimeter of stretch at a seam? Probably not...

I understand that some may prefer the looks and romance of hand stitched seams, but I can't help but think that the "feel" argument is bunk. If hand stitching allows for different cuts or shaping in some way, however, I'd concede it's possible.

First of all, I don't have to do anything. Whether my experiencing greater comfort in a handsewn shirt is down to some sort of placebo effect or not, is irrelevant. All that matters is that my handmade shirts feel more comfortable than machine made ones. I suggest you try one first some day, before categorically dismissing it as "bunk".

 

[SartodiNapoli]



Every thread SdN posts in proves he's nothing more than a pretentious troll.

Before insulting a person calling troll you should listen my voice on the audio on the forum.interviewing Italy's most expert about fabrics Then how am i troll?

Thank you. Reported by offensive

 

[archetypal_yuppie]

EliodA - I'm am surprised by the defensiveness. Also you haven't read what I said closely enough and/or didn't think it through. I didn't mean to be your adversary here...

First of all, I don't have to do anything.

I know, it's a figure of speech... If it needs to be spelled out, I am addressing you and the various readers of the thread and inviting thought and/or discussion.

Whether my experiencing greater comfort in a handsewn shirt is down to some sort of placebo effect or not, is irrelevant.

In the context of what I said, no it isn't.

All that matters is that my handmade shirts feel more comfortable than machine made ones.

Which could be a function of the seams, a function of the cut, or the placebo effect as you described it. My post was a discussion of what the more likely explanations could be.

I suggest you try one first some day, before categorically dismissing it as "bunk".

If you read more carefully, you'll see that I did not dismiss the possibility that hand-sewn shirts could be more comfortable. I did say that I think the increased comfort is likely explained by cut or shaping*, rather than by the hand sewing itself. Could I be wrong? Sure. I doubt it though. Bear in mind that those who sell hand-sewn garments have a pretty strong interest in representing it as superior (That's not an order, you don't HAVE TO bear it in mind).


*to the extent that "shaping" is relevant in shirts - I don't know but I would think that's just suits. Just don't want to make assumptions.

 

[archetypal_yuppie]

Some of this I can't understand, some of it is insulting with no basis, some of it makes no sense at all. While you seem to have some clothing knowledge (which you're not afraid to exaggerate), I'm not interested in debating with you, due to your obvious biases and incoherent reasoning.

@ Archetypal, my last post here as this is becoming hooliganism and bad educated for part of some and i avoid polemics. Not archetypal.on this last thing. Specially if some tries to convince me of a concept as water is dry while obviously is wet.

I understand he likes Shirtwaven and supports him strongly as a sport team. We see this all atound the forum, also.like to read his post on the forum as well as i defend my friends but when something is too obvious my dignity makes me stop.



We have done blind test on relatives on hand sewn shirts even at sides, where one of the two stressing machine threads can be avoided and all found this shirts softer as that is not an opinable thing, simply is that way. The economic factor is another never mentioned by Shirtwaven that i know.

I respect your freedom of speech calling it bunk as if some prefers a 3 cilinder car vs. classic V12 Jaguar, but trying to convince the first is better, not with me please. I am a perfection maniac always looking for a step forward not back.

Also sorry to say but mixing on the same sentence Alumo as synonim of same quality with a medium to low quality as Acorn is the same thing. And this last is not an opinion, is simply what is.

Again i prefer by far the first interview, was very interesting and great to read and reread.
Best