1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

StyleForum Interviews CEGO's Carl Goldberg, Part II

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Teger, Jun 11, 2014.

Tags:
  1. Teger

    Teger Senior member

    Messages:
    21,933
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    StyleForum Interviews CEGO's Carl Goldberg, Part II
    Words by Ben P.​

    For Part I visit here. CEGO recently moved their shop, and is now located at 254 Fifth Avenue, 3rd Floor.

    Ben P: When someone's going to buy a shirt off the rack, what should they look for?

    Carl Goldberg: 90% of shirts are all made in factories using all the same machinery and the same methods. They're all made in automatic factories with computerized equipment and they all look the same. You put the fabric down, you push a button, and a machine sews it instead of a person. There are certain brands that make a really nice shirt. I"m amazed how Kamakura sells a shirt for the price they do, because it's a really nice garment.

    B: Is it still machine made?

    CG: It's done by sewing machines, but it's not being made by computerized sewing machines.

    B: How about the Italian shirt brands? Which ones are good?


    CG: Tom Ford's Made in Italy shirts - or maybe Switzerland - is beautiful. It's really a beautiful shirt. The high-end Zegna stuff as well. But you're talking about a $400, $500 shirt. I'm not a big fan of what's called hand stitching. I think it's more for show. It's different from a suit where the hand stitches give the garment a chance to move. A shirt needs to be a little tighter so the stitches don't break. I've seen numerous Borelli shirts that are do some hand stitching at the armhole and the stitches have popped. I've seen hand-button holes that are so awful it's depressing.

    B: Do you think the button-hole is a mark of a good shirt?

    CG: Oh no. There's one or two sewing machines that make the most beautiful button-hole you've ever seen. I'd much rather see that than a sloppy hand button-hole.

    B: One thing I did want to ask about is the epic fabric debate over Simonnot-Goddard chambray. Is there any advice you can offer for people looking to purchase fabric to bring to tailors?

    The problem is... I've had people bring me fabric that's just so embarrassingly bad that I just wouldn't even use it. Recently I had this young guy bring me some crazy looking stuff, and we've been making shirts for him that are more streetwear looks - we've used three different fabrics, one had a leather collar, and it actually came out very well. I know people buy from Acorn, and out of the Acorn line I'd say 75% of the line is really not good. I've seen stuff come through and I don't know where they're manufacturing - they don't make their own fabrics, they're contracting it out - and I've seen some stuff that's just terrible.

    B: And Simonnot-Goddard chambray?

    CG: Let's not go there.

    B: You're not a fan?

    CG: It's terrible! The very first time someone showed it to me I had not seen it on the internet. I looked at it - and this was a nice guy and a good customer - and I said "where'd you buy this crap?" And he looked at me like I had just stuck him in the arm with a pin. He'd paid $100 or so, and I said this stuff's terrible. I hadn't even looked that closely, I'd just felt it the first time. That was the first time I've across this so-called special fabric which I didn't think that was very special. It's a poly-cotton workshirt. I think that the chambray trend is waning a little bit. People still like them, but they're not nearly as popular as they used to be.

    B: What do you think the next big trend will be?

    CG: I don't know. What I do is very specific. I have certain fabrics I like.

    B: Just in general? You're part of the industry. What do you see on the horizon?

    CG: I still see that there's a move to dress up, to wear a dress suit with slacks or a suit with or without a tie. There's still customers who like a big wide collar, but for my customers I try to talk them into a more classic look, maybe with an interesting fabrication. I'm getting some of my customers to pick some interesting things. Some interesting stripes. I'm still selling checks, still selling 60% checks, 40% stripes, if not more.

    B: Have you seen what customers are ordering change over the years?

    CG: I'm tired of making gingham shirts and hopefully everyone else is tired of wearing them. Really what's come down is that there's an entire generation of young guys whose fathers dressed poorly and they did not have the benefit of their fathers giving them advice. That's where the internet came in, places like StyleForum and originally AskAndy and a few other forums. In my fathers day if he saw someone who was well-dressed, in the right situation, he wouldn't be afraid to ask "that's suit's beautiful, where did you get it made?" It was more of a word-of-mouth business for certain types of tailors and shirtmakers. Well-dressed didn't go to a place because of a good PR firm.

    B: Who makes your suits?

    CG: I trade with Mr. Ned primarily. I make myself unconstructed shirt jackets that I wear occasionally.

    B: Do you have any advice for someone new to men's clothing?

    CG: There's nothing like going into a brick and mortar store and trying something on. Hopefully where you're going there's someone you can trust who will steer you into something that's nice and give advice. Hopefully there's someone who's not going to put something on you that's not right and push you out the door. The other thing is, sometime it's better to buy a few expensive things you like rather than a lot of inexpensive things that are crappy.

    B: What’s next for you and CEGO?

    CG: The next chapter for CEGO is a new shop at 254 Fifth Avenue. A larger, more elegant space where you can see the shirts being made, and maybe if you are nice, ill offer you a scotch while I take your measurements.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
    6 people like this.
  2. Holdfast

    Holdfast Senior member

    Messages:
    10,562
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Entertaining interview. It helps that I happen to agree with the little tilts he makes at a few (at least former) shibboleths... [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. diadem

    diadem Senior member

    Messages:
    1,077
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Quote:What if I'm underage? Do I get apple juice? But seriously, nice interview and I definitely want to get some shirts made by CEGO in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  4. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    I'm known as a pretty critical guy, so I'll be the one to point out that the editing is pretty shabby. One of the questions is even mixed in with Carl's answers, among other things. It's never too late to fix it! Smiley face.



    Anyway, I've bought shirts and had shirts made in several places in NY over the years, and Carl is the best (and remains my current "shirt guy"). Very flexible with the details, and got the fit just right (for once!). Also importantly, shirt after shirt is consistent. That's what matters.

    Also awesome is the quick turn-around time. Not sure how much this varies with in house vs. NJ.

    Downsides: You don't have much visibility into the provenance of his fabrics, which SF-type people probably tend to like. But you're also probably kidding yourself if you think the name "Alumo" or "Acorn" is a better indicator of quality than what Carl carries or recommends, since he is in the business and we, generally, are not. So while that was a minor concern for me initially, it no longer is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  5. philosophe

    philosophe Senior member

    Messages:
    4,892
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Carl 1; shibboleths, 0.
     
  6. VRaivio

    VRaivio Senior member

    Messages:
    2,226
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Location:
    Finland
    ...I really wouldn't want to be the one to do this, but it's Simonnot-Godard -- http://www.simonnot-godard.com/1.aspx.

    It's like this:

    Niles: Other motorists are getting angry.
    Frasier: If they weren't so shortsighted, they'd see that I'm doing this for their own good. It's like correcting people's grammar -- I don't do it to be popular.
     
  7. Teger

    Teger Senior member

    Messages:
    21,933
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    

    Sorry about that. Fixed! I had to post this from my phone this morning (computer problems...)
     
  8. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Thanks :)

    I am surprised that there are not more participants in these threads. I guess there are several other CEGO threads, so he's not too new or mysterious.
     
  9. bertie

    bertie Senior member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Location:
    North of
    I don't live in NYC but stopped by Carl's on a business trip 5 or so years ago and had a first shirt made. The first shirt fit well enough that I never changed the measurements and have had more than a dozen shirts made since then including a couple of unique, theme shirts for want of a better term. All have held up very well and all Carl's fabrics have held up well unlike a couple of other MTM brands.

    Based on my experience I would definitely recommend CEGO. AY's comments on the cloth provenence are spot on - though Carl does carry some name brands, he has no-name cloth that can provide great value while not giving up on quality.
     
  10. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

    Messages:
    4,057
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Is Carl's new place across the street from the previous store on the 2nd floor, or is he in the same building on the 3rd floor?
     
  11. mack11211

    mack11211 Senior member

    Messages:
    6,436
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    Brooklyn USA
    

    The former. Old location was on the SW corner of 5th and 28th. New location is two doors up 5th, on the west side of the street.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  12. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    1,001
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    I really liked the first interview, this dissapointed me a lot. I am sorry to say that a shirt without the armhole sewn by hand, so with the ugly visible thread by machine is not a beautyful shirt.

    That is my personal opinion and respect his opinion but like neapolitan studied shirtmaker with the Borelli family among others. If the handparts have fallen might be due to aggressive laundering.

    I have never seen that and i even own shirts completely sewn by hand but only the topstitching of the collar and cuffs done by machine, as student training and do not fall appart washed by hand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  13. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Some people prefer to save that $100.
     
  14. hippotamus

    hippotamus Senior member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Really interested in what Carl would recommend for fabric.

    Do Carl deal with international customer ? Lets say one will be in NYC for a week or so, is that possible to get the shirt via mail ?
     
  15. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    1,001
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    


    But that is another thing, economy vs. beauty.

    And he used the therms beauty, not the economic that could be understood as you did on that way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  16. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    

    Do you insist on everything being 100% vicuna? Of course not. Don't be obtuse. Hand sewn shoulders are only noticeable on close inspection, and it is not an unreasonable decision, by any means, for someone to choose not to pay a marginal $100 (or whatever it may be) for that feature.

    Additionally, preferences on what looks best are subjective. And I've seen plenty of hand stitching on SF that looks like shit. And even more additionally, I don't doubt Carl's view (if I'm interprating it correctly) that machine sewn stitches are more robust.

    Even more additionally: I think hand stiching might look nice on a casual shirt, sure. But I think it would look innappropriate on a business shirt in many or most situations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
    2 people like this.
  17. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    1,001
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    


    Well that is your opinion but we do shirts for all the primeministers and oligarchs for that use not for sport. I am interested to see what brands are the ones that look bad to understand your position as exercise of quality improvement.

    Other thing that shocked me from the interview was saying Borrelli had in some shirts horrible buttonholes. In theory those shirts are not seconds but thirds not sold by any reason to avoid comments as this one per example as the quality control is very exhaustive.

    In fact the person who did the quality control onBorrelli at that time .is now a top shirtmaker that a controversial tieseller here is ruining his name all the time...

    Those defective Borrellis I think can be found online at low prices. Some dishonest people did business on that, selling garments from the garbagge can when the brand was taken, i know that from first hand but is another story that can't publish.
     
  18. bertie

    bertie Senior member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Location:
    North of
    The interview represents Carl's opinion. Many of us have interacted with Carl and find him a knowledgable and useful resource for the forum. Knowledgeable and useful persons are a welcome and enlightenling presence on SF.

    Not every opinion is based on fraudulent, dumpster-crawling behaviour nor related to any other thread on the forum that has been flogged to death. If you don't have something interesting or useful to add perhaps you best move along.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. EliodA

    EliodA Senior member

    Messages:
    3,762
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    I think the main benefit of handmade shirts is not so much the better look, but comfort. The shirts I own that have handsewn armholes etc. are decidedly more comfortable to wear than machine stitched shirts. I've been told that is because handmade seams have more stretch in them than machine made ones.
    If the hand stitching is so ostentatious that it would seem inappropriate to wear in a CBD environment, then it's just bad quality hand stitching.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. hippotamus

    hippotamus Senior member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Dont speak for Carl, but I think he meant dont hand stitch because of hand stitch, go hand stitch because it give extra value like durability, fit, look...etc . Many shop use it as gimmick
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by