Stuff Styleforvm overrates

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

We like to refer to it as the open, slapping hand of socialism.

Are you saying socialism is effeminate? That's what I hear you saying.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

This is the business model of the sole remaining bespoke tailor in my city, whom I have used for RTW alterations only since college days...27 years.

Unlike England, unfortunately, I see no resurgence of support for local bespoke tailoring in the US.

For the longest time, all of the great tailors here have been immigrants...if you asked me to name a native born American bespoke tailor of note today, I could name only one: Paul Winston.

I would assume that if demand returned, so would the global talent...if the pool doesn't shrink beyond recovery as we go into the future.

I know that Despos has an apprentice, and I believe Centofanti does as well. I have no idea what plans for continuity there are, if any, among the other top American tailors. If any of you do, it would be interesting to read your comments.


- B
Paul Winston isn't really a tailor. Or he is a tailor the way Rubinacci is a tailor.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Are you saying socialism is effeminate? That's what I hear you saying.

In the same way as motherhood, yes.

Not in the same way as randallr.


- B

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

What's the situation with the NYC tailors? Are the ones that you know training and cultivating successors?


- B

Raphael had one for a while. He was the only one I know of who did. He was a nice kid. The Kiton guys even offered him a slot in their school in Italy, expenses paid, and he turned them down. He ended up leaving Raphael after a year or so and went into retail. He learned enough to make himself a pair of pants, and he got really good at buttonholes, but he was not there long enough to become a full-fledged tailor.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by dopey

Paul Winston isn't really a tailor. Or he is a tailor the way Rubinacci is a tailor.

Close enough.

But important point, nonetheless.


- B

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by David Reeves

I was actually taught pattern making and cutting initially by a Tutor of mine at University who attended the royal college of fashion With and was a lifetime freind and collegue of Ozzie Clarke. I also recieved training at Gieves under Andrew Goldberg and Michael Burgin. . .
Thanks, David. And good luck.

 

[David Reeves]

I agree with a lot of this. Not sure if the immigrant population will go into tailoring or bring those skills but who knows. There's a great alteration tailors called stitches in Manchester that employs imagrant workers but I don't see much flair anywhere in actually making suits.

A big deal in the U.S why your missing out on good imagrant tailors though is that imigration doesn't see it as a specialist skill so the door is closed here. I was talking to a high end tailor in L.A and he was saying how he had to spend a fortune and lots of legal tangling to get tailors legally working stateside.

When I came over the first time my lawyers talked more about my education than the real specialist skills I had. They thought this was a better card to play despite me having one reference with three royal warrants on it!

I think this is the thing though. With small firms there is demand and you can make a living but we aren't seeing stellar returns or busineses expanding.

I think Savile Row visiting Abroad and doing MTM and RTW shows you they could be in better shape. But hey they are adapting, evolving so this is good.

Originally Posted by George

The ones I've spoken to seem to be doing OK. It has to be said though that they don't just rely on Bespoke customers, a lot of their business will be in doing alterations for the designer concessions in department stores which can be quite nice sideline.

Tailoring in England isn't that much different from tailoring in Italy, You have your big houses but you also have those little gems hidden away. These tailors tend not to be techno-savvy hence don't have an internet presence so know one hears of them. Also, many of the older, one-man-bands are quite happy to just make a comfortable living and aren't really interested in taking on a large number of clients they're happy servicing their regular clients.

It is true that a lot of these tailors are getting on, but I'm seeing something of a renaissance happening with tailoring in England at the moment, so I think the immediate future looks quite good. If business is good, there'll be a requirement for new blood to enter the trade and these will likely come from the new wave of immigration into the UK. Britain owes much of it's textile and tailoring heritage to the influx of immigrants from the Huguenots to the Jews to the Greek-Cypriots and I can see this continuing.

Perhaps David will add his views..

 

[David Reeves]

Originally Posted by Manton

What about the SR training programs? There is the consortium school thing, and individual houses (A&S and Sedwell among others) are training young tailors. Isn't that promising?
I don't know about current programmes but when I was finishing my time at Gieves they really wanted me to do an apprenticeship. Thing was though the wage was rubbish for someone who had spent 3 years at University. It would have been great if I was 16 but here's the irony, I bet these days they wouldn't consider you if you weren't degree educated! The other thing was that it was something like 4 years. Within 4 years of leaving university I was making triple what I would have been on with the apprenticeship as the menswear manager at Prada in Bond street. I think if I had done the aprenticeship I would be running my own business now just the same but it would have been a Much harder slog financially. I also knew people that did these aprenticeships and often they were just cheap labour or doing errands rather than learning. Savile Row has to make these jobs apealing!

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by David Reeves

Savile Row has to make these jobs apealing!

Despos gives his apprentice all the kimchee that he can eat, and also a free membership to StyleForvm.


- B

 

[George]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Despos gives his apprentice all the kimchee that he can eat, and also a free membership to StyleForvm.

- B

That stuff is foul...

 

[George]

Originally Posted by David Reeves

I don't know about current programmes but when I was finishing my time at Gieves they really wanted me to do an apprenticeship. Thing was though the wage was rubbish for someone who had spent 3 years at University. It would have been great if I was 16 but here's the irony, I bet these days they wouldn't consider you if you weren't degree educated! The other thing was that it was something like 4 years.

I also knew people that did these aprenticeships and often they were just cheap labour or doing errands rather than learning.

Savile Row has to make these jobs apealing!

This is symptomatic of British manufacturing in general. They savaged the apprenticeship schemes back in the 80' s and now wonder why there's a shortage of skilled men. What I love about British industry is their foresightedness.....or lack thereof.

 

[Canal Directo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Despos gives his apprentice all the kimchee that he can eat, and also a free membership to StyleForvm.


- B

global warming awareness FAIL

 

[sho'nuff]

styleforum overrates these two smilies:

 

[David Reeves]

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

styleforum overrates these two smilies:

Oh yeah! I had forgot what this thread was about!

 

[Nicola]

I just think that Italy isn't suffering as much as England in terms of tailors and manufacturers disapearing.

There's so few genuinely good tailors left in London. /QUOTE]

This town is much MUCH smaller then London but finding a tailor isn't exactly easy here in Italy. There is one guy who does nothing but morning suits for weddings. Nothing else. The other guy really sells RTW but can make a MTM. Short of a three hour drive to Rome or Naples it doesn't get much better.

Plenty of seamstresses for alterations but that's because it's pretty normal for people to get pants hemmed etc. Both men and women.