Stitching Crooked on New Shoes, Should I Return Them?

[archetypal_yuppie]

no it is not particularly uneven. yes you should return them. vomit.

 

[ManofKent]

Not my taste, but I don't think slightly uneven stitching looks out of place with the overall aesthetic.

 

[upnorth]

Bad move. Instead of posting the fault here, you should have kept quiet and flip them at B&S for twice what you paid for them. You seem very adept at that and I'm sure someone will buy them.

Seriously though, I hope you didn't pay too much for them. People tend to overpay for "exotic" leathers.

 

[greekgeek]

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

cant see the photos as my work blocks photobucket, but if they are crooked and uneven, yes, return them.

but if they are Allen edmonds, that means they are Firsts. keep them.

Zing!

I lol'd a little at this, still wearing commando sole Leeds in black shell whilst reading it!

 

[sho'nuff]

Originally Posted by greekgeek

Zing!

I lol'd a little at this, still wearing commando sole Leeds in black shell whilst reading it!

i hear ya. my commentary was mostly a poke-fun at those who got their AEs up their anus so deep , they cant take any criticism.

 

[greekgeek]

Originally Posted by RIDER

I think you'all are nuts - looks like shark which is so tough it is almost impossible to stitch a curve without a little deflection - and the soles look great......closed channel.

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

I agree with Rider, the shoes look to me like "˜new-old-stock' made of sharkskin (probably from the 1960s). Shark and stingray are notoriously difficult to stitch and the manufacturer has made it particular difficult by placing four parallel rows; (where one would have sufficed to provide the necessary strength).

If you like the saddle shoe style, if you like shark skin, if they fit alright and if the price you paid was reasonable, I would keep them. I think they are a very nice pair of vintage shoes. (Get spikes fitted and wear them on the golf course). Zou can use a dark polish and tone the stitching down.

How many people do you know, who would go down on their hands and knees it inspect the stitching.

Well, the jig is mostly up, so I will come clean. The crooked stitching does not really bother me at all. I found it curious as I had not come across anything like it before this pair and thus a solicitation for comments, albeit a little tongue in cheek given some past SF threads. When I started this thread I fancied that perhaps so many irregularities might even be a mark for the work of hand rather than machine.

It seems more likely to be a function of a hardy leather and irregular surface, although I wonder if back in the 1930's, which I estimate these to be produced in, anyone was stitching together leather uppers by hand? It looks unique for the saddle, although the lining is clearly machine stitch. The four rows of stitching is a bit over the top, perhaps the result of a make work program?

Tarmac, 1938, as you oh so subtlely suggested, is probably close to the right date. The shoes have a patent number from 1932 in the lining. The company, Jarman, was founded in 1924 and exists today as Genesco!

So as some of you have guessed in this thread or perhaps the other, it is indeed from the seal. At size 6 1/2 I will not be wearing them anytime soon but they are certainly very interesting. As a side note they were not listed as seal and described as an unknown size.

All, Thanks for the feedback and the laughs.

 

[dropout5]

what did you pay for them?

 

[Leather man]

Originally Posted by RIDER

I think you'all are nuts - looks like shark which is so tough it is almost impossible to stitch a curve without a little deflection - and the soles look great......closed channel.

And is that linen lining material I see? Ha Ha! Clearly Prada bought this company in the great depression!

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by RIDER

I think you'all are nuts - looks like shark which is so tough it is almost impossible to stitch a curve without a little deflection - and the soles look great......closed channel.
I don't think they are shark. I've worked with shark a fair bit making boots. Doesn't look like any shark I ever saw. As for the stitching, four lines was a mistake in judgment. I doubt it needed four and anytime you do more than two (maybe more than one) you better be 20 years old with 20/20 vision...any mistake or deviation is gonna get magnified on the next line and magnified yet again on the third and fourth. I've done eight lines but it ain't easy. Also the colour of the stitching will amplify any mistakes. Four lines is also an aesthetic mistake because it draws the eye away from the leather. It becomes a focus point...which only further brings out the unevenness of the stitching. From a design standpoint, unless ornamentation is deliberate...as with broguing and gimping...it is the better part of wisdom to let the leather speak. PS...Oops, sorry I didn't see the branding on the sole. Sealskin, eh? Never handled it..

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I don't think they are shark. I've worked with shark a fair bit making boots. Doesn't look like any shark I ever saw.

As for the stitching, four lines was a mistake in judgment. I doubt it needed four and anytime you do more than two (maybe more than one) you better be 20 years old with 20/20 vision...any mistake or deviation is gonna get magnified on the next line and magnified yet again on the third and fourth. I've done eight lines but it ain't easy. Also the colour of the stitching will amplify any mistakes.

Four lines is also an aesthetic mistake because it draws the eye away from the leather. It becomes a focus point...which only further brings out the unevenness of the stitching. From a design standpoint, unless ornamentation is deliberate...as with broguing and gimping...it is the better part of wisdom to let the leather speak.



PS...Oops, sorry I didn't see the branding on the sole. Sealskin, eh? Never handled it..

Seal, shark....looks the same - either way hard as hell.

I still have some shark left in the factory from a project.

 

[Tarmac]

Ron, what animal is the blue leather in the upper right? Is is just grained calf? Or something else? And also, I think (perhaps horribly wrongly) that I would like to see a calf captoe with that shark/seal on the cap only.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by RIDER

Seal, shark....looks the same - either way hard as hell. I still have some shark left in the factory from a project.
Superficially, yes, it does. But shark typically has those long, almost straight, ridges that are so evident on your blue piece...and to a lesser extent on the black. I don't see that at all on the seal. It's possible, of course, that the shoe was mis-labeled but there are any number of leathers that could be mistaken for other leathers if a closer look isn't in the offing. And there are a number of species of shark that are used for leather...they do differ(a little) in the way they look. When I was using shark (and I haven't used it in years), I never had a problem sewing it but I used leather point needles which actually cut as they enter the leather rather than just puncture. A Tri-Point or NRTW needle will track pretty well on shark. Nothing tracks well on stingray. But leather point needles are becoming harder to find, especially in all sizes and for older machines. As a result many makers have switched to round point needles. I have never handled seal so I can't comment from experience but I don't know why seal would be even as hard as shark. Sharks are primordial animals and their skin is a form of armour. Seals have a hair/fur coat. I have handled sealskin sporrans (hair on) and they showed no evidence of being stiff or hard under the fur. who knows...just speculating. PS...I also thought the stitching was a little long.

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by Tarmac

Ron, what animal is the blue leather in the upper right? Is is just grained calf? Or something else?

And also, I think (perhaps horribly wrongly) that I would like to see a calf captoe with that shark/seal on the cap only.

Elephant Ears

We also got some Hippo or Rhino...forget which....recently and used it on some vamps at the show in Milan. Got an order, called the tannery to order and they said 'how do we know when we can deliver - you have to wait for one to die!' Great.

Don't know about the cap idea.....I used some of the shark as saddles on a Bordo/Black Saddle sample - nobody really picked up on it.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by RIDER

Don't know about the cap idea.....I used some of the shark as saddles on a Bordo/Black Saddle sample - nobody really picked up on it.

I really like those. When I was in high school many, many years ago, I had a pair of Florsheim saddle shoes that were black on burgundy. I loved them. I think the shark works perfectly on this pair. The colour contrast combined with the textural contrast is striking.

 

[RIDER]

^^^^

ok, give me a call at the shop and I'll make you a pair