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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Does it look like I am in search for a dad or a teacher or a preacher ? Did I even ask for an opinion ?

🤔
You seem to be upset that I commented on your photo, which wasn't my intention. Someone asked if they should get Russian grain oxfords. I chimed in to offer my opinion, as they asked a question. I think Russian grain oxfords are very specific and only useful with rustic suits.

Then someone asked if such shoes can be worn with green or navy trousers in corduroy or linen. I again offered my opinion on the matter.

I wasn't interjecting into your convo, or randomly commenting on your photo. It seems like you're upset because the subject of the original photo is you. If that's the case, I'm sorry. Genuinely don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers or make it personal. The subject of the photo could have been anyone, and I wasn't commenting on you specifically, but rather the usefulness of those types of shoes.

If people are spending $1,500 on shoes, I think it's worth thinking about how they can be worn. Otherwise, you're just collecting expensive objects.
 

nishant

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And here we go again 😛

BTW, dude, I have been wearing scrubs to work for 3 months now and don’t have the opportunity to wear the SF revered Fresco or Rota Cotton-Wools Spring Blends to work .. and so when these AMs arrived, I wore them and took some pictures ! What A Sin 😆

Honestly speaking, if I bring Oxfords into my rotation with jeans, my boots will have to wait 6 months for their turn and I can’t do that.

But then, I didn’t want to write that earlier.

I stand by my earlier statement though ... If I needed opinions on how I should wear my trousers or jeans, I would post on WRUW or opinions thread.
 
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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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And here we go again 😛

BTW, dude, I have been wearing scrubs to work for 3 months now and don’t have the opportunity to wear the SF revered Fresco or Rota Cotton-Wools Spring Blends to work .. and so when these AMs arrived, I wore them and took some pictures ! What A Sin 😆

Honestly speaking, if I bring Oxfords into my rotation with jeans, my boots will have to wait 6 months for their turn and I can’t do that.

But then, I didn’t want to write that earlier.

I stand by my earlier statement though ... If I needed opinions on how I should wear, I would post on WRUW or opinions thread.
I think you may need thicker skin to match your rustic shoes.
 

brax

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I agree with DWW. I can’t imagine wearing oxfords with jeans or even casual wear. There are better pairings so why force things?

But, to be even more extreme than DWW, I don‘t wear derbies with suits, either.
 

somatoform

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Some of this reminds me of this discussions we've had on this board on how to wear a sport coat with jeans.
I understand much of the sentiment regarding not wearing oxfords with jeans. I find much of it kind of unsightly myself. But in the same way that the nuance between suit jackets vs sport coats can be a prohibitive factor in the look of the outfit and in the same way that there's too much variation in denim fades and fits, can we also not say a black oxford is not a black oxford is not a black oxford?

For example, I'm quite taken with the way an Alden black shell Hampton last oxford looks with denim. Now, it seems, at least as far as images go, that said oxford isn't as sleek as ones offered by St Crispins and whoever and maybe that's why to me it looks good (still a single leather sole, but with some heft).

I was actually inspired to buy a Hampton lasted Alden black oxford to wear with denim because of some of the LVC outfits in their lookbooks.

And I even wear plain captoe black oxfords with jeans. :p
Me too.


And to make my post Saint Crispins relevant, I would also wear these with jeans (my Saint Crispins fantasy order):

 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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But, to be even more extreme than DWW, I don‘t wear derbies with suits, either.
I agree. I think suits look better with oxfords, rather than derbies. I just think most men don't wear suits often enough to warrant having that many oxfords. But many guys buy them because they look sexy online.

I think a derby is workable with a suit, even if not ideal. Oxfords don't look right to me with sport coats, let alone jeans.

I understand much of the sentiment regarding not wearing oxfords with jeans. I find much of it kind of unsightly myself. But in the same way that the nuance between suit jackets vs sport coats can be a prohibitive factor in the look of the outfit and in the same way that there's too much variation in denim fades and fits, can we also not say a black oxford is not a black oxford is not a black oxford?

For example, I'm quite taken with the way an Alden black shell Hampton last oxford looks with denim. Now, it seems, at least as far as images go, that said oxford isn't as sleek as ones offered by St Crispins and whoever and maybe that's why to me it looks good (still a single leather sole, but with some heft).
I personally can't see that working, but I'm curious if you have a photo where you think it works? It doesn't have to be a photo of you or anything, just an example.

Formality in a shoe is made up of many things. But I take oxford as the first cut.
 

shirtingfantasy

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I received my trial shoes. Fit is not that great, so I sent an email. Now I am waiting for a reply.
Sorry for detailing the discussion from the oxford and Jeans debate. My view is it can work, and the grained oxford works well. Chukka or derby could be better, but may not be significantly so (to me).

“Back” to cyber fitting: I think cyber fitting is similar to how certain Italian (think Meccariello), China (a handful of them do that) and “affordable bespoke” makers in various parts of the world (Russia, Indonesia, Vietnam) offer to do it. Result is mixed at best. I read also later posts by @Patrick1053 and I empathise with your disappointment and frustration - but I also want to point out that self measurement and tracing of feet on a piece of paper is very, very error-prone. Even if you did it many times, there could be systematic biases (think tension difference between when your wife does the measurement, and when Phillip does it himself) that cannot be easily calibrated and corrected. All these add to suboptimal results in many cases (see ShoeGazing review on Meccariello MTM shoes for another example, fit also wasn’t perfect).

I did my StC modified last during the early days of COVID-19 before the official launch of Cyber Fitting. My experience was smooth as only small adjustments were needed - as I had the opportunity to try out shoes at The Armoury when there was still a trunk show plan in early February (which I had planned to order from). To get the base size right is, arguably, the most important factor in getting cyber fitting right - not the measurements, not the detailed description of your foot shape (How high is high instep? How low is low? How flat is a flat foot?).

If Phillip & StC can offer sample shoes for client to try out size and
before even proceeding to measurements and last adjustment, it could be better for the Cyber Fitting. He could operate like certain Italian makers (I forgot, probably Bestetti but I cannot confirm now as their website is down) and charge and send clients a couple of refundable sizing shoes - tax and courier changes could make this infeasible to many, I reckon.

Last but not least, sizing libraries at Skoaktiebolaget and Meccariello website are what I often refer to when I buy new brands. They help as a sort of translation table from the well-known brands (e.g. the Edward Green you have been enjoying) to the rare and exotic.

Hope @Patrick1053 may sort this out soon, and may he enjoy his upcoming pair.
 

vmss

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From what I understand here is an oxford should NOT be made with grain leathers, shell, light and or flashy colors correct?

The best match for an oxford is the simplicity combined with black or dark brown color correct?
 
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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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From what i understand here an oxford should NOT be made with grain leathers, shell, light and or flashy colors correct?

The best match for an oxford is the simplicity combined with black or dark down?
I generally think that all shoes should be mid-brown, dark brown, or black. Sometimes non-traditional colors can work in a very casual, SWD type outfit. But for traditional men's style, the focus is typically on your shirt, jacket, and tie combo. This is why it's hard to wear patterned trousers -- they draw the eye downward. When your shoes become unusual, it does the same thing.

Take tan, for example. Again, I think oxfords are for suits, so let's take tan oxfords. Ignore that one of the models here is not wearing socks. You see this kind of outfit often in the city: tan oxfords with a dark suit.


tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co1_500.jpg


tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co7_r1_540.jpg

tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co6_r1_1280.jpg



I think guys buy tan oxfords because the color catches the eye. But most of them only have dark suits, because most men have limited wardrobes. When you combine tan oxfords with dark suits, they shine out like a beacon. It becomes distracting. It draws the eye downward.

If you want to wear tan oxfords, I think it works better with a lighter suit. But most men don't have many occasions where they can wear such light-colored suits, as they only wear suits for business. (Second photo here is of monkstraps, but you can imagine the outfit with oxfords)

tumblr_ns8txlazcQ1qa2j8co2_1280.jpg


tumblr_ns8txlazcQ1qa2j8co3_500.jpg



I think tan is easier with casual styles, such as loafers or derbies. But again, you want to pay attention to how they can draw the eye downward. I think it works best if you have a light-colored sport coat, which you can pair with dark pants. This way, you balance out the two poles. The problem is that most men don't have light-colored sport coats. They have dark-colored sport coats and light-colored pants

tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co2_r1_1280-813x1024 (1).png


tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co5_r1_1280-817x1024.png



If you do a darker sport coat with lighter pants, then it helps to still brighten up the whole outfit so it feels summer-y.


tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co4_r1_1280-818x1024.png


tumblr_oofpd2Eiyk1qa2j8co3_r1_1280-724x1024.png



From what i understand here an oxford should NOT be made with grain leathers, shell, light and or flashy colors correct?
As to the other part of this question, I think the same applies. I think it helps to keep in mind the seasonality, context, and history of some material or color. Think about how it combines with the rest of your outfit, so you're not wearing something like purple grained shoes with a charcoal chalk-stripe suit. Obviously, if you want to dress viscerally, then perhaps this doesn't matter. But if you want to create a coherent, harmonious, and pleasing outfit according to certain norms, then it helps to know the history of these things.

Grained leathers are rustic. They go best with country clothes (or fall clothes in a modern context). I think of oxfords as being for suits; derbies and other things with sport coats. Flashy colors should always be avoided. I also think shell is best on penny loafers, tassel loafers, and boots. It was originally a workwear material, but has some trad history. It feels wrong to me on an oxford, which was and continues to be a city shoe.

Mark at The Armoury recently did an unboxing video for his new pair of Fukuda split-toes. In the video, he mentions in passing that he also only likes oxfords with suits and derbies with sport coats.

 

BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes

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Sorry for detailing the discussion from the oxford and Jeans debate. My view is it can work, and the grained oxford works well. Chukka or derby could be better, but may not be significantly so (to me).

“Back” to cyber fitting: I think cyber fitting is similar to how certain Italian (think Meccariello), China (a handful of them do that) and “affordable bespoke” makers in various parts of the world (Russia, Indonesia, Vietnam) offer to do it. Result is mixed at best. I read also later posts by @Patrick1053 and I empathise with your disappointment and frustration - but I also want to point out that self measurement and tracing of feet on a piece of paper is very, very error-prone. Even if you did it many times, there could be systematic biases (think tension difference between when your wife does the measurement, and when Phillip does it himself) that cannot be easily calibrated and corrected. All these add to suboptimal results in many cases (see ShoeGazing review on Meccariello MTM shoes for another example, fit also wasn’t perfect).

I did my StC modified last during the early days of COVID-19 before the official launch of Cyber Fitting. My experience was smooth as only small adjustments were needed - as I had the opportunity to try out shoes at The Armoury when there was still a trunk show plan in early February (which I had planned to order from). To get the base size right is, arguably, the most important factor in getting cyber fitting right - not the measurements, not the detailed description of your foot shape (How high is high instep? How low is low? How flat is a flat foot?).

If Phillip & StC can offer sample shoes for client to try out size and
before even proceeding to measurements and last adjustment, it could be better for the Cyber Fitting. He could operate like certain Italian makers (I forgot, probably Bestetti but I cannot confirm now as their website is down) and charge and send clients a couple of refundable sizing shoes - tax and courier changes could make this infeasible to many, I reckon.

Last but not least, sizing libraries at Skoaktiebolaget and Meccariello website are what I often refer to when I buy new brands. They help as a sort of translation table from the well-known brands (e.g. the Edward Green you have been enjoying) to the rare and exotic.

Hope @Patrick1053 may sort this out soon, and may he enjoy his upcoming pair.
I know Materna, and Ramon Cuberta offer that service. As you mentioned, the buyer is responsible for shipping costs to/fro.
 

BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes

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I generally think that all shoes should be mid-brown, dark brown, or black. Sometimes non-traditional colors can work in a very casual, SWD type outfit. But for traditional men's style, the focus is typically on your shirt, jacket, and tie combo. This is why it's hard to wear patterned trousers -- they draw the eye downward. When your shoes become unusual, it does the same thing.

Take tan, for example. Again, I think oxfords are for suits, so let's take tan oxfords. Ignore that one of the models here is not wearing socks. You see this kind of outfit often in the city: tan oxfords with a dark suit.


View attachment 1393546

View attachment 1393545
View attachment 1393544
I think guys buy tan oxfords because the color catches the eye. But most of them only have dark suits, because most men have limited wardrobes. When you combine tan oxfords with dark suits, they shine out like a beacon. It becomes distracting. It draws the eye downward.

I think it helps to keep in mind the seasonality, context, and history of some material or color. Think about how it combines with the rest of your outfit, so you're not wearing something like purple grained shoes with a charcoal chalk-stripe suit. Obviously, if you want to dress viscerally, then perhaps this doesn't matter. But if you want to create a coherent, harmonious, and pleasing outfit according to certain norms, then it helps to know the history of these things.
It's funny because the dark blue suit, and occasionally dark gray, with tan shoes, I have seen more times than I can count. It is a rather ubiquitous combination here in streets of NYC. That's not to suggest I would wear it.

I can say many younger colleagues (under 35) seem to say women love the look. Not sure I'd generalize it based on a few respondants, but I once took it upon myself to question a few younger females. A rather fun informal questionnaire.

I asked 20 women (yes it was a slow day haha), and they gave the dark suit and tan shoes nod of approval.

One thing to note, I feel younger men can pull off that look better than older guys. My reasoning? The women I showed a few pictures to smiled when a younger guy was wearing the outfit. No smiles for the older guys.

Incidentally, I do agree tan shoes are more seasonal. They are more acceptable in the late Spring to Summer time. Afterwards they just look out of place, at least here in NY.

As mentioned by someone, (@deez shoes ?) I think location plays a critical role on the acceptance of certain colors with certain outfits. As well as certain shoe styles with certain outfits.

As I mentioned previously, if you can pull off the look and feel good about, by all means. 👏🏻
 

ryanluo23

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When i clicked on the SC thread to see i have 5 pages of unread post and i got excited!! Thinking ill be able to perve on tons of SC purchases...but

Internet WWW has allowed everyone with internet to have an opinion. We all can agree to disgree but lets not forget what brought us all here in the first place.

So start posting some SC photos! Give me some shoeporn and less of your opinions dot com
 

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