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Square-toed shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by kabert, Jun 30, 2004.

  1. Looking to improve

    Looking to improve Senior member

    Messages:
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    Jan 16, 2004
    Location:
    (Greater) The Hague, The Netherlands
    All quotes by T4phage:
    Lucky you.
    LOL Â [​IMG] Why thank you, kind sir [​IMG] . Does the term 'budgeting' strike fear in your hart? Â [​IMG] . Seriously, when I work I try to recover and seize as much criminal gains as I can, so no spending curbing for me. In fact, on that front I'm fighting the same battle [​IMG] .
    I had noticed that. Smaller margin/markup? MtB
     
  2. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    All quotes by Looking to Improve:
    ga weg, ga weg.... (go away go away {for our english speaking members}) Â [​IMG] . Â
    What happens to the goods that your people seize? Â Are they auctioned off to pay their debts?
    So you are more evil  [​IMG] , being an accountant and all  [​IMG] .
    Don't know, maybe the Borrellis/Brionis were older? Â But still, the amount of handwork apparent in both should command a higher premium that Isaia even on sale. Â Maybe you should ask Paul (the bald guy who is the manager of the Oger store in centrum).
    [​IMG] Â Odd indeed. Â What I find sad with the economy right now is that many many talented graduates have to find jobs elsewhere or to do something totally different. Â The budget for science is suffering, and the new graduates are made to pay. edited for grammatical error [​IMG]
     
  3. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

    Messages:
    986
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    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    VICTORIA AUSTRALIA.
     
  4. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member

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    Actually Marc, T4phage is a very nice and extremely insightful person, with more experience than just about everyone else on this board when it comes to high-end clothing, both RTW and bespoke. He knows what he is talking about, and is willing to contribute his knowledge in a clear, thoughtful and logical manner. His presence here is much appreciated.
     
  5. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    VICTORIA AUSTRALIA.
    l don't dought t4phage's knowledge one bit, l just think he is a dubious person that is not to be trusted.

    For heavens sake Harris; look at his several attempts to bring up previous posts about myself. He always claims to make a point [about myself], but it never has enough substance to make sence. He always claims that l contradict myself; he either, - never reads all my posts, doesn't understand them, or is a troll.

    T4phage has no credibility. Who cares if he has or knows about good shoes. lf he is not a good person, he is not worth spitting on.
     
  6. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    VICTORIA AUSTRALIA.
    T4phage is a troll. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

    Messages:
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    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    RVA - NYC
    Have I missed something? Are you supposed to pick a handle with the name marcsomething if you intend to be rude, obnoxious, demeaning, condesending, or arrogant? It seems that all these marc?s are extremely thinned skinned, to say the least.
    T4phage is one of the many informed posters on these forums and it would be really great if there were some way to eliminate these attacks that include juvenile name calling.
    Now, T4phage, I have noticed that you don't like Blake stitched shoes. Why? There is a difference between Blake stitched and Goodyear (shoefan - I am coming over to the less rigid description of Goodyear), however, I don't think it is inferior at the better end of the market. Just different.
     
  8. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

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    Apr 24, 2003
    If you think so, then your understanding of the word is deficient. If you can't see the value in T4Phage's posts, then don't read them. Just don't hijack a thread so you can make juvenile ad hominem attacks on him or anyone else.
     
  9. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

    Messages:
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    I'm not T4Phage (I don't even play him on TV), but if I recall correctly, he's had trouble with his feet getting wet when he wears Blake-constructed shoes in the rain. The stitching through the insole and the outsole makes them less water-resistant than Goodyear shoes, you know.

    In any event, as for me, I have no problem with Blake-constructed shoes. I've bought them before, and I'll continue to buy them. All things being equal, however, I would usually prefer Goodyear construction for a few of reasons: I can feel the stitching on the insole when I wear Blake-constructed shoes, and I don't like it that much (I feel a bit like the princess and the pea when I say that, but there it is); I've found the best Goodyear shoes that I own to be more comfortable than the best Blake shoes that I own for extensive walking (not sure why this is, but it is so); and I think that the level of craftsmanship involved in producing the best Goodyear shoe will almost always be greater than the level of craftsmanship involved in producing the best Blake shoe. All things are rarely equal, however, and I would much rather have a Blake-constructed Gravati shoe than a Goodyear-welted Alden shoe (not that there's anything wrong with an Alden shoe).
     
  10. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

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    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    RVA - NYC
    Right, I seem to remember the water issue as well. Urban environments/lifestyles in Europe obviously put a greater strain on footwear than we typically find here in the States. Different constructions for different needs - duh. BTW, ever try butcher block oil on outsoles? Gives a good amount of impervabilility(?) w/o making them slick.
     
  11. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member

    Messages:
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    Mar 23, 2002
    Location:
    London, UK
    Can I come in on that one, although I'm not T4phage. I have no problem with Blake construction as such, only poorly executed ones. My particular bugbear is Blake where the stitching goes right through from the innersole, through the middle sole (if present) through the outsole. That leaves a hole at every point where the needle punctured; that hole is filled with thread, which whisks in moisture into the inside of the shoe in next no time. Better shoemakers channel the outsole that the stitching is not in direct contact with the outsole or they employ Blake/Rapid or similar hybrids where there is no direct connection between outside and inside of the shoe. The first version is just a cemented (glued) shoe and then you run a row of stitching right through, basically as an afterthought. (It's a method Tod's uses and I believe for the top price they demand they could have invested more care in the construction.) That illustration shows a channelled Blake construction, nothing wrong with that: [​IMG] It's the un-channelled one, right all the way through, that I object to. Particular if the design is heavy; it looks like a strong shoe but wait till you hit wet pavement.
     
  12. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member

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    I don't mind Blake-stitched shoes either, although I do prefer a Goodyear welt. The reason is, for me, that Goodyear welted shoes have more horizontal (side-to-side) rigidity of the sole. Blake-stitched shoes tend to crown after I've worn them for a while - that is, the sole develops a sort of roundness. This could be entirely due to the particular shape of my foot and my gait though.
     
  13. BGW

    BGW Senior member

    Messages:
    107
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    Mar 1, 2004
    Wow thanks for the diagram and explanation. I am still a little unclear on the exact nature and benefits of a channelled stitching. In the diagram, does the stitching pass through the "Channel," or does it stop at the point labelled "Blake seam"?
     
  14. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

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    When a sole is channelled, an incision is made in the outsole of the shoe and the resultant flap is folded back to reveal a channel. The stitching through the outsole is made through that channel, then the flap is folded back into place and glued down. The net effect of this process is that you can't see the stitching on the bottom of the shoe.

    In other words, in bengal-stripe's diagram, the stitching terminates in the middle of the sole, and the line marked "Channel" is simply an outline of the cut.
     
  15. BGW

    BGW Senior member

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    Thanks Jcusey. This is true description true for both blake stitched shoes and for the channelling on Goodyear welted shoes, such as C&J Handgrade?
     
  16. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

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    Yes. The only difference is that on Blake-constructed shoes, the stitching goes through the insole while on Goodyear-welted shoes, it goes through the welt. The channel would have to go further in from the edge of the sole on Blake-constructed shoes, obviously, but it's the same idea.
     
  17. BGW

    BGW Senior member

    Messages:
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    Mar 1, 2004
    I presume that the waterproofing benefit would not exist for goodyear welted shoes, as the seam does not protrude into the sole. Why then is channelling desirable?
     
  18. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

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    Well, it will delay the abrasion of the sole stitching, although it's mostly for visual appeal.
     
  19. BGW

    BGW Senior member

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    But the added visual appeal is on the bottom of the shoe?
     
  20. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member

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    Sure. Why do you think the best shoemakers lavish so much effort on the finishing and polishing the sole of the shoe? I don't want the shoe to be a work of art on top and a piece of junk underneath. People see the soles of your shoes all the time. More importantly for me, I see the soles of my shoes all the time.
     

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