SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

[DonRaphael]

This statement is at odds with basically everything I've read about fused vs half vs full. Fused is not ideal, but apparently much better than it used to be. Half canvas offers a significant reduction in cost over full canvas and performs adequately for most people.

What makes you think otherwise?

In regards to the Clissold suit in question, is the fabric significantly more expensive than Minnis fresco lite? The full canvas Minnis suits from last year dropped at $598. This half canvas Clissold is listed at $648. I know prices have gone up, but that seems like quite a jump.

If memory serves me correct, Crispaire was more expensive than Fresco when I asked in 2021/22. Also, Minnis seems to price their fabrics more reasonably currently than others.

 

[ericgereghty]

But IIRC last year the fully canvas premium fabric suits were the same prices as this half canvas option. I get it inflation and all but that's a tough pill to swallow. I've done a lot of MTM w/ S&M, on the fence about if I'll ever do it again due to the issues w items not being made to spec and just the jankiness of the web interface (why oh why would we want to MTM so many similar bottom tier fabrics?! I think people would buy more if there were fewer, more distinct options).

FW jacketing is always great. But most companies do a tremendous job w/ FW collections. It's in many ways easier to pull off. Having better quality 4-season and S/S stuff is more challenging. I'm looking at stuff trickling out at another (more expensive) AV and it's just meh so far. The SS sportcoats this season for S&M give me some hope.

the pricing is a bit wonky for me, as well. Yes, again, inflation, but VBC 4-ply (or Drapers) certainly ain't cheap from my non-SM interactions. Much pricier than Minnis. Can't speak to H&S (also pricier than Minnis, I do know for certain) but don't imagine it dramatically more so than Drapers.
Either way, HC is a bittttttt of a bummer, but not likely enough to dissuade me.

 

[St1X]

This statement is at odds with basically everything I've read about fused vs half vs full. Fused is not ideal, but apparently much better than it used to be. Half canvas offers a significant reduction in cost over full canvas and performs adequately for most people.

What makes you think otherwise?

I took jackets apart and looked inside. I was gifted a half canvased dinner jacket from Suitsupply because it had fusing bubbling. Took me a lot of effort to fix it - I basically removed fusing from the jacket as I wasn't able to re-activate the glue.
Also, it's a myth about significant reduction in price, at least in Spier's case, as the canvas is machine stitched and machine attached. If it was handmade, than the cost would be much higher

 

[St1X]

So you're saying that for some situations, half canvas is better than full, but at the same time is inherently worth significantly less? I don't understand.

No, half canvas is better for no situation. I am just saying that if you have very light and delicate fabric it's gonna look better on a half canvased jacket, because they add fusing to it

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

No, half canvas is better for no situation. I am just saying that if you have very light and delicate fabric it's gonna look better on a half canvased jacket, because they add fusing to it

So you are saying half canvas is better for light fabrics than full canvas then? Got it, and agreed.

It's interesting that you notice this, because this was actually fusing's very first application in tailoring. It gets a bad rap today because during the 2010 #menswear nonsense, obnoxious MBA types trying to sell you a half-canvas suit (cough cough Indochino) were quick to point out the bubbling and bad lapel roll in a cheap fully fused one. This was kind of unfair of them though, and they did not mention that when light fabrics came onto the scene in the 1970s, fusing was initially pioneered on Savile Row itself, whose tailors considered it a very innovative way to add some structure with minimal weight, perfect for these newfangled S100 things. Nowadays, it's definitely still not a good way to make a lapel, but since the bubbling issues are largely resolved, I don't think it cheapens a garment, esp a lightweight one, to use it to add some light structure to the front quarters.

 

[Commonbloke]

So you are saying half canvas is better for light fabrics than full canvas then? Got it, and agreed.

It's interesting that you notice this, because this was actually fusing's very first application in tailoring. It gets a bad rap today because during the 2010 #menswear nonsense, obnoxious MBA types trying to sell you a half-canvas suit (cough cough Indochino) were quick to point out the bubbling and bad lapel roll in a cheap fully fused one. This was kind of unfair of them though, and they did not mention that when light fabrics came onto the scene in the 1970s, fusing was initially pioneered on Savile Row itself, whose tailors considered it a very innovative way to add some structure with minimal weight, perfect for these newfangled S100 things. Nowadays, it's definitely still not a good way to make a lapel, but since the bubbling issues are largely resolved, I don't think it cheapens a garment, esp a lightweight one, to use it to add some light structure to the front quarters.

Your explanation makes sense. It would also explain why Spier uses no fusing at all for the half-canvassed Fox tweed while they do for the half-canvassed Linen/wool Guabello.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Your explanation makes sense. It would also explain why Spier uses no fusing at all for the half-canvassed Fox tweed while they do for the half-canvassed Linen/wool Guabello.

Happy to help. One thing I don't understand is why in the MTM / MTO world, full canvas costs so much more than half. It's only an extra bit of material after all, and I'm not really seeing where the extra work comes in; I have a bunch of butterfly-lined jackets where the innards are visible, and the canvas in the front quarters just kinda sits there. Doesn't seem like it took much extra work compared to half.

 

[zurich64]

Thanks for the input.
I have tried HT before and agree with how different it feels. For me, the main selling point for this fabric is how good it looks. But, considering these attributes of HT that you have outlined, I often do wonder why people are so devoted to HT and why they're in so much demand. It's quite warm (which is not always good esp if you're indoors), stiff, doesn't feel good to touch, etc.

What is it about HT that people find so special?

HT is a warm and reliable fabric, which holds its shape with rough use. Particularly good as a travel jacket, one can just fold it in a suitcase or handbag, and it retains its shape without creasing. I have three jackets in HT from a Scottish maker and in colder months I wear an HT jacket 2-3 times a week. With a light sweater, it is almost like wearing an overcoat. The difference in weight and color depth with other tweeds is quite remarkable.

 

[zurich64]

Your explanation makes sense. It would also explain why Spier uses no fusing at all for the half-canvassed Fox tweed while they do for the half-canvassed Linen/wool Guabello.

Spier, I believe uses a heavier 4-ply canvas even for premium fabrics. I have seen some fusing in the half-canvassed jackets that use lightweight wool/silk/linen mixes.

I also have several full canvassed jackets in lightweight fabrics (S150s, wool/silk/cashmere mixes) from suit supply that use a very light 2-ply canvas and hold their shape very well. Their MTM gives the option to choose a 2-ply or 4-ply canvas, and the lighter weight one is better for delicate fabrics and summer jackets.

A full canvas does not cost much when attached by machine, but it is one of those things that can be exaggerated and charged at a premium (like trousers versus chinos in the same fabric).

Spier often runs a free full canvas upgrade promo for MTM.

 

[JHud]

I like this but I’m nervous about the 57% cotton. Any idea how something like this would drape?

Di Fabio - Navy & Brown Houndstooth - Neo Cut Sportcoat | SPIER & MACKAY

Spier & Mackay

www.spierandmackay.com

 

[1st Step]

Summer Sand Donegal...

 

[zurich64]

I like this but I’m nervous about the 57% cotton. Any idea how something like this would drape?

Di Fabio - Navy & Brown Houndstooth - Neo Cut Sportcoat | SPIER & MACKAY

Spier & Mackay

www.spierandmackay.com

I would go for wool/linen options. I had something with 50-50 cotton wool and did not like it. In summer, wool/linen jackets have become my favorites, wrinkle resistant, very breathable and drape well.

 

[RajunCajun]

Spier Cord Overshirt and Pants

 

[JTrent82]

Lots of new outerwear in previews. I've never even heard of a teba jacket before...

 

[Wrenkin]

Lots of new outerwear in previews. I've never even heard of a teba jacket before...

Interesting. Teba jackets are great but there are only a couple of manufacturers. It’s nice to have another option.