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Sonny8

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Comment -- With all due respect, it seems like you had odd expectations for an off the rack suit fitting you as if it was custom made for you.
Answer -- No, my expectations were that it would fit as well as a Dillard's otr, which it did not. Since my bar was set low, and the S&M otr did not meet those expectations, that is unfortunate.

Comment -- As well IMO, I would not rely on internet/google advice for measurements based on something as general as height, when there can be so much variance in proportions between individuals.
Answer -- The only measurement that was to my liking was the measurement I Googled, so this would be contrary to the result achieved.

Comment -- You’d be much better off taking your actual measurements and comparing those to the measurement charts to get a good fit.
Answer -- I did take my own measurements and did compare those to the size chart. I also wanted to try on an off the rack suit jacket that fit in person at a department store to ensure measurements I took weren't off base.

Comment -- Needing alterations to an OTR suit (sleeve length, waist, hemming) is to be mostly expected if your body measurements dictate, unless you are lucky enough to perfectly fit the base pattern.
Answer -- Yes, we know.

Overall -- My original post was sound. I wouldn't buy an OTR S&M only to pay to have it altered which may vary in cost by region. Better to pay more for a custom trouser and jacket to get the sizing dialed in from the beginning and avoid wasted time and money.
Go custom
 

apd90700

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Unless you have sticks for legs, a 13” hem looks awful. Form-fitting, clingy legs. If you like that look, agree that S&M is not for you.
Sort of a reactionary insulting post isn't it? Believe that Brian Sacawa is a men's clothing model, and is 5'9" 155lbs, doesn't have stick legs and probably looks better in a suit than any of us on here.
 

breakaway01

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I have no interest in Brian Sacawa, whoever he is. Why do you care so much what he writes about the correct hem size? Maybe a 13” hem looks good on him, but to write that most men look good in dress trousers that skinny is absurd. BTW I am 5’10” and 145 lb since apparently Brian Sacawa’s dimensions matter?
 

apd90700

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I have no interest in Brian Sacawa, whoever he is. Why do you care so much what he writes about the correct hem size? Maybe a 13” hem looks good on him, but to write that most men look good in dress trousers that skinny is absurd.
Not going to hijack this thread as I have more respect for the forum posters than to bother with this overmuch other than to say, if you're on Styleforum, have that many messages on record, and have never seen an advert for high-end menswear featuring Brian, then I'd be surprised. I trust someone who has made a living on wearing the best suits in the world, similarly to how you respect more experts in any field over a random person.
 

apd90700

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That’s... not how buying a suit or jacket works.
Probably should read the response I gave. I did my own measurements before going to Dillards to ensure the measurements I took were accurate to a basic OTR suit jacket, which they were.

Overall, posting any sort of critique in a thread with people who love a brand is going to get a lot of heat.
 

Jmr928

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Probably should read the response I gave. I did my own measurements before going to Dillards to ensure the measurements I took were accurate to a basic OTR suit jacket, which they were.

Overall, posting any sort of critique in a thread with people who love a brand is going to get a lot of heat.
No - Just trying to help set your expectations and help you understand where you went wrong. There’s no such thing as “basic OTR” measurements. Brands vary. Models vary. I’m anything from a 38L to a 42R depending on the brand, their various models and cuts. Even some brands have different lines and I bounce between sizes within that brand. You might want to adjust your expectations if you don’t want to have to get alterations done - That’s a very basic part of what 99.9% of guys buying suits off the rack either need to do or should do. Edit// It has nothing to do with a critique because you didn’t critique the brand. You critiqued that it didn’t fit you how you wanted based on some theoretical non-existent standard and unreasonable expectations.
 

zeddeff

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Not going to hijack this thread as I have more respect for the forum posters than to bother with this overmuch other than to say, if you're on Styleforum, have that many messages on record, and have never seen an advert for high-end menswear featuring Brian, then I'd be surprised. I trust someone who has made a living on wearing the best suits in the world, similarly to how you respect more experts in any field over a random person.
I think the point is that height and weight only gets you to the ballpark but an individual’s body is generally not cut from the same template — so taking measurements from one source (and from a model as you say, at that), seems to be a strange approach if you were considering going custom in the first place.

For example, I myself am 5’7 and 145lbs. I take 36 contemporary sportscoats and have a 29.5” inseam. 27” or your suggested number would look comically short on me because my proportions are different from yours.

Moreover, there’s sizing differences across brands. I don’t think 38S is meant to be universal in the way you seem to think
 

apd90700

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No - Just trying to help set your expectations and help you understand where you went wrong m. There’s no such thing as “basic OTR” measurements. Brands vary. Models vary. I’m anything from a 38L to a 42R depending on the brand, their various models and cuts. Even some brands have different lines and I bounce between sizes within that brand. You might want to adjust your expectations if you don’t want to have to get alterations done - That’s a very basic part of what 99.9% of guys buying suits off the rack either need to do or should do.
My strategy of buying OTR from S&M was to see as you're saying, what my size is for their jackets, my expectations were low. That said, for S&M my sizing is a big difference to other brands, so when I do the MTM the jacket and pants will need to have a lot taken in. That would be good information for anyone else considering S&M, that not everyone has success stores, so it's something to consider -- do you want to risk OTR + alteration tax, OR do you just go MTM off the bat and maybe come out ahead.

I've already ordered a dress shirt MTM from S&M which should arrive in the next week, and have high expectations for it, as it was done with measurements that fit me like a glove on a shirt I own. I'll probably buy my MTM trousers next [presupposing the shirt fits as expected] and be able to speak to that. I also mentioned that I do expect to get alterations done on OTR if the suit doesn't fit, otherwise we'd all have to resell our OTR suits that don't fit :).
 

apd90700

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I think the point is that height and weight only gets you to the ballpark but an individual’s body is generally not cut from the same template — so taking measurements from one source (and from a model as you say, at that), seems to be a strange approach if you were considering going custom in the first place.

For example, I myself am 5’7 and 145lbs. I take 36 contemporary sportscoats and have a 29.5” inseam. 27” or your suggested number would look comically short on me because my proportions are different from yours.

Moreover, there’s sizing differences across brands. I don’t think 38S is meant to be universal in the way you seem to think
Sigh... Yes... Brands differ in sizing, OTR often requires alterations, etc.

The point of my post is that people looking to buy from S&M may be better off going MTM straight on, rather than OTR since the OTR for some may fit worse than others, but the MTM program is [ostensibly] good. That was my conclusion on the post -- probably better off not wasting time and money on OTR and just buy MTM.
 

Proleet

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Not going to hijack this thread as I have more respect for the forum posters than to bother with this overmuch other than to say, if you're on Styleforum, have that many messages on record, and have never seen an advert for high-end menswear featuring Brian, then I'd be surprised. I trust someone who has made a living on wearing the best suits in the world, similarly to how you respect more experts in any field over a random person.
Brian also spun the bs that Paul Evans shoes offer quality of shoes costing 4-5 times as much...don’t believe any random blogger’s bs. Just me 2 cts...
 

apd90700

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Brian also spun the bs that Paul Evans shoes offer quality of shoes costing 4-5 times as much...don’t believe any random blogger’s bs. Just me 2 cts...
Yeah, don’t listen to everything, especially when it’s branded since he may be getting kick-backs. But when he speaks about how a suit should fit, probably good to listen.
 

hpreston

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To pile on. Anyone who says anything along the lines of
X leg opening for someone x height is not telling the whole story. To say that a certain hem width is set by height doesn’t take into account the wearers waist, shoe size (very important to have a balanceleg opening) leg length compared to torso etc.

Is akin to posters who say things like, I have a 15 inch neck and weigh 155, what size S&M jacket do I wear?

Also, it’s extremely rare that at an OTR suit will not need adjustments to sleeve length....
 

Proleet

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Yeah, don’t listen to everything, especially when it’s branded since he may be getting kick-backs. But when he speaks about how a suit should fit, probably good to listen.
I think most people here who have a lot of suits or sc’s probably don’t need a blogger to tell them the magic rule for hem size...as plenty of others have pointed out, it’s about balance and that will depend on your specific measurements.
 

NikG

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Sigh... Yes... Brands differ in sizing, OTR often requires alterations, etc.

The point of my post is that people looking to buy from S&M may be better off going MTM straight on, rather than OTR since the OTR for some may fit worse than others, but the MTM program is [ostensibly] good. That was my conclusion on the post -- probably better off not wasting time and money on OTR and just buy MTM.
If OTR fits well for someone then why bother going the MTM route. Everyone should try OTR before going MTM unless you have a non-standard body shape that will definitely require MTM. And if an OTR suit doesn’t fit just return it, S&M are extremely accommodating in terms of returns and their customer service is phenomenal.

Comparing one brand’s sizing to another is ridiculous, even in the same size within the same brand there’s going to be differences. You really could have just measured your best fitting suit and compared it to S&M’s size chart and chosen the corresponding size. Seems like you went to a lot of effort to essentially get same result as just guessing your size.

Based on everything you’ve said it’s possible you ordered a size too big for you and you actually need a 36S or you’ve got a non-standard body shape that will require MTM. It’s also common knowledge that sleeve length and some form of waist tailoring are generally expected to be done on OTR suits and it’s not an expensive tailoring job either.
 

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