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orange fury

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I feel like low armholes have been a recurring complaint for a number of their products. I don't really understand why they have this tendency towards lower armholes. It's obviously common in lower end clothing because it works for the highest possible number of people, but does that approach fit S&M's customer base? I'd be surprised if their main audience isn't guys like us posting in this thread. Certainly now during quarantine, at least. Guys that appreciate the look and benefit of higher armholes. Comparable brands like SuSu or Cavour doesn't have this issue at all. Is it a North American influence, perhaps?



I mention it in my initial rant, but I got two field jackets in 36 (and I wear 38 jackets, suits and overcoats). A navy and a natural linen. I'm keeping the navy, but will either return or sell the natural linen if anyone is interested. The armholes are significantly lower on the natural linen than the navy, so it's probably a combination of unfortunate production tolerance on an already low armhole that made my natural linen especially bad.

It would be interesting to compare armhole measurements among those of us that have received our jackets. My navy field jacket measures 27 cm from shoulder to armpit laying flat. The natural linen measures 29 cm.
Thanks for the info- I forgot you had posted your size in the post, my bad. Im picking up my jacket tomorrow and will measure the armholes, I’m curious about the tolerances as well.

All that said- I own more jackets and suits from S&M than I care to admit, and I’ve never had a real issue with the armhole measurements. Maybe it could be slightly higher, but it’s never been enough to bother me. Different bodies and all that though.
 

Imperatores

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Thanks for the info- I forgot you had posted your size in the post, my bad. Im picking up my jacket tomorrow and will measure the armholes, I’m curious about the tolerances as well.

All that said- I own more jackets and suits from S&M than I care to admit, and I’ve never had a real issue with the armhole measurements. Maybe it could be slightly higher, but it’s never been enough to bother me. Different bodies and all that though.
No worries, mate. Which jacket did you get? Hopefully it fits you well.

I'm with you on the armhole measurements for the suits and sportcoats. When I purchased my first S&M sportcoat a couple of years ago I was initially not a fan of the armhole and the surprisingly roomy sleeves. However, I've gotten into weight training since then and that has made me appreciate the benefits of more relaxed sleeves. I still find that the armholes could be slightly higher, though. Especially on the contemporary fit.

My frustrations lies more with their outerwear range. It's just so hard to know how different styles are going to fit, and the sizing between different jacket styles often baffles me. Like why is a linen field jacket in size 36 roomier than a size 38 single breasted overcoat? Why is it roomier than the equivalent wool field jacket, for that matter? Surely you're much more likely to wear chunkier or additional layers under the heavier FW version. Why would anyone want lower armholes on a lightweight summer jacket than on a heavy winter coat?
 

T_Texas

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Hello,
Could European customers (especially French one) tell me about their experience with duties when buying from Spier and Mackay ? I'm interested in buying a few items but I'd like to avoid some unexpected problems that may raise the final "price".
I’m in Germany. 19% sales tax and a ~24€ brokerage fee were added by UPS. Received an email from them when the product entered the EU and I paid the fees via PayPal. Shipping took less than two weeks if I remember correctly. Hope that helps!
 

motorchang

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Email always worked fine for me. They give you pre-assigned warning that response might be slow, but turnaround has been consistently overnight or two at most for me for this past year. If I have something urgent, I ask directly through IG.
 

Rbpp

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I’m in Germany. 19% sales tax and a ~24€ brokerage fee were added by UPS. Received an email from them when the product entered the EU and I paid the fees via PayPal. Shipping took less than two weeks if I remember correctly. Hope that helps!
yes, that's really helpful, thanks a lot !
 

orange fury

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Alright, here’s a data point on the Safari jacket (ignore the super-elegant Lululemon shorts and Margaritaville t-shirt). Reminder that I normally wear 38L contemporary or 38R contemporary Neo, I’m a 38” chest, 32” waist, 34.5” sleeve, 15” neck, and 5’11”/155. This jacket is a 38:
33D0558A-5E30-4CE1-B57D-1774A08CB21A.jpeg
CBD6A0B7-6EAA-4650-9584-E5F775F682A2.jpeg
E0540AA4-F97F-41C7-84C0-629F7A55A257.jpeg
14B4742B-E580-4A7E-B5C0-8A4AF4763E02.jpeg


I wasn’t entirely sure how everyone was measuring the armholes, but following the curvature of the seam between the two red arrows is 27cm:
AD4DBD51-9428-4863-89D1-3FDB4A475642.jpeg


I’m still figuring out what I think. The fabric is excellent (like really excellent- breathable while being suitably heavy), but the armholes are noticeably low. That said, armholes on a casual jacket like this aren’t a deal breaker for me- the biggest issue I’d run into day to day would be the sleeves riding up while driving (3rd pic), which is really a minor annoyance at worst. Initially I wasn’t sure about the belt, but I like the visual break it provides (and it was much easier to neatly tie than I expected). Sleeves could maybe be slightly longer, but I imagine with a long sleeve shirt it’ll probably be fine (the cuffs are slightly more narrow than I expected, though not tight). The biggest concern I really had was if this is something I’d really wear enough to justify the price, but the more I wore it the more I liked the look, and the more I was thinking up situations/outfits I could use this in. I’ll think on it for the next week or so and try it with a couple different things.
 
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conak

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Alright, here’s a data point on the Safari jacket (ignore the super-elegant Lululemon shorts and Margaritaville t-shirt). Reminder that I normally wear 38L contemporary or 38R contemporary Neo, I’m a 38” chest, 32” waist, 34.5” sleeve, 15” neck, and 5’11”/155. This jacket is a 38:
View attachment 1591191View attachment 1591192View attachment 1591193View attachment 1591194

I wasn’t entirely sure how everyone was measuring the armholes, but following the curvature of the seam between the two red arrows is 27cm:
View attachment 1591195

I’m still figuring out what I think. The fabric is excellent (like really excellent- breathable while being suitably heavy), but the armholes are noticeably low. That said, armholes on a casual jacket like this aren’t a deal breaker for me- the biggest issue I’d run into day to day would be the sleeves riding up while driving (3rd pic), which is really a minor annoyance at worst. Initially I wasn’t sure about the belt, but I like the visual break it provides (and it was much easier to neatly tie than I expected). Sleeves could maybe be slightly longer, but I imagine with a long sleeve shirt it’ll probably be fine (the cuffs are slightly more narrow than I expected, though not tight). The biggest concern I really had was if this is something I’d really wear enough to justify the price, but the more I wore it the more I liked the look, and the more I was thinking up situations/outfits I could use this in. I’ll think on it for the next week or so and try it with a couple different things.
I’ll probably be crucified for this, but I would size up. I love belted safari jackets, and the SM one will be my fourth when it arrives. For my first foray into safari jackets I went the more tailored route—like so many SF posts—thinking it a more casual replacement for a sport coat, but quickly discovered that although it looks good in pictures, any occasion appropriate for a more closely-fitting safari ends up with me pulling a standard sport coat. By the time the season’s up I find myself forcing a wear to justify its closet space. The larger safaris get much more use. I think a safari should NEED the belt, having the kind of space you would want if it was the only jacket you brought into the bush and need to be able layer under it when temperatures drop while stalking elephants at night (to photograph, not shoot, don’t kill me). I think you’re about midway between the SF safari-as-sport coat and the looser look I’m describing. I’ll bet 40 would be spot on for you

For an example, here is a Grenfell shooter. It’s not a safari per se, but definitely occupying the same space. Were it not for the belt cinching the waist, he would be a box, but he could easily layer and not be constricted when snatching ivory (away from poachers)

1618148886732.png
 

motorchang

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Of all things I've came across so far through my journey to this classic styling, these safari jackets are probably the most 'menswear' thing I've seen. I've never came across anyone wearing anything remotely similar like these. Guys you see on streets still wears jackets and shirts, however 'un-sartorial' their choices are, but these jackets are bit strange to me. I can see there's some usefulness in them but honestly it feels like one of these would only make me stand out in a weird way even though these are supposed to be a casual, relaxed substitute for your jackets, especially the bright colored one.

Not a knock on anyone who likes these things. Seem like many do. Just sounding out if anyone feels the same way about them, or maybe get some counterpoint of view or two to broaden my perspective :)
 

XxLogo

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Has anyone ordered the linen overshirts yet? Curious how they are
 

orange fury

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Of all things I've came across so far through my journey to this classic styling, these safari jackets are probably the most 'menswear' thing I've seen. I've never came across anyone wearing anything remotely similar like these. Guys you see on streets still wears jackets and shirts, however 'un-sartorial' their choices are, but these jackets are bit strange to me. I can see there's some usefulness in them but honestly it feels like one of these would only make me stand out in a weird way even though these are supposed to be a casual, relaxed substitute for your jackets, especially the bright colored one.

Not a knock on anyone who likes these things. Seem like many do. Just sounding out if anyone feels the same way about them, or maybe get some counterpoint of view or two to broaden my perspective :)
that’s part of what I’m trying to decide- I’m not opposed to standing out or wearing something I don’t see others wearing in real life, but I’m deciding how useful something like this would actually be. It’s definitely unique in my closet, but the thing I’m struggling with is that it gets too hot down here during the summer (even in the evenings) to wear any sort of jacket outdoors at night. So I’m thinking this would primarily be a “casual Friday” piece, but I’m wondering how much use it would even get in that capacity. One thing I think this would be very useful for, with all the pockets, is travel- pre-COVID I traveled for work a decent amount and expect to again eventually, so I’m also deciding whether this might be a good reason to hang on to it.

decisions decisions lol.
 
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sdjackofclubs

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Out of curiosity, what sizes did everyone order on the field and safari jackets? The 36 safari @CaliforniaTux posted looks great, but @Imperatores is returning his field jacket because of low armholes. I’m receiving a 38 today and will post my thoughts when it comes in, but I’m wondering if as the size goes up, people are having more issue with the low armholes (so maybe a scaling issue).
I ordered my regular size, 40. Posted about it a week or so ago. I think it fits well. Didn't notice a low arm hole issue.
 

breakaway01

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I agree with @conak and @motorchang . There is something off about these safari jackets to me. They are too tailored looking (lean silhouette, trim sleeves) to wear casually. The tied belt is too delicate for the look. Sizing up will result in an overly long jacket. They will look a lot better with some wear but I can’t see myself wearing one of these.
 

mak1277

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that’s part of what I’m trying to decide- I’m not opposed to standing out or wearing something I don’t see others wearing in real life, but I’m deciding how useful something like this would actually be. It’s definitely unique in my closet, but the thing I’m struggling with is that it gets too hot down here during the summer (even in the evenings) to wear any sort of jacket outdoors at night. So I’m thinking this would primarily be a “casual Friday” piece, but I’m wondering how much use it would even get in that capacity. One thing I think this would be very useful for, with all the pockets, is travel- pre-COVID I traveled for work a decent amount and expect to again eventually, so I’m also deciding whether this might be a good reason to hang on to it.

decisions decisions lol.
These things are tough for me too. This jacket in particular, I would never consider wearing indoors, so it's absolutely not a sport coat replacement. Similar to you, I'm not in a location that requires a jacket during the summer even in the evenings. For me, a linen chore coat is a much more useful piece compared to this one. I just think the safari's are too fussy.

I feel the same way about the Armoury's 3PB. I just don't know how/when I'd wear it because I wouldn't keep it on indoors.

Notwithstanding the above, as another long-armed person, the second pic you posted would drive me bananas and make the jacket an immediate return. I cannot stand when jacket sleeves ride up to my forearms.
 

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