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orange fury

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Out of curiosity, what sizes did everyone order on the field and safari jackets? The 36 safari @CaliforniaTux posted looks great, but @Imperatores is returning his field jacket because of low armholes. I’m receiving a 38 today and will post my thoughts when it comes in, but I’m wondering if as the size goes up, people are having more issue with the low armholes (so maybe a scaling issue).
 

dangaa

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Out of curiosity, what sizes did everyone order on the field and safari jackets? The 36 safari @CaliforniaTux posted looks great, but @Imperatores is returning his field jacket because of low armholes. I’m receiving a 38 today and will post my thoughts when it comes in, but I’m wondering if as the size goes up, people are having more issue with the low armholes (so maybe a scaling issue).
I’m curious on this as well. I’m between a 38 contemporary and a 40 slim and am curious now if I should be ordering the 38 instead of the 40 which I had originally planned on doing.
 

SteveMc

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Sorry if this is a repeating theme. Anyone with full body fit pics of the 5 pocket cords? And did you pick the same size as you use in the high rise trousers? Thanks!
Cross-post from the WAYWT thread, dark brown 5-pocket cord in 30 contemporary, same size as in all my dress pants. However, I'd recommend sizing up one size because the cords cannot be let out, plus the cords come in odd sizes so you can really nail down to your waist size.

Work from home day,
 

Imperatores

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good post, terrible to hear that. Spier really needs to be made aware of this and the fact they are losing customers to that decision. I love spier and their quality and cuts but have Decided to stop ordering. My next purchases will Be higher level stuff, not in cloths but in cut (and more superficially in an item which has armholes that correspond to my body
I know spier at their price point needs to find something for the masses, but when everyone starts complaining about the same subject, it seems they need to correct something.
I feel like low armholes have been a recurring complaint for a number of their products. I don't really understand why they have this tendency towards lower armholes. It's obviously common in lower end clothing because it works for the highest possible number of people, but does that approach fit S&M's customer base? I'd be surprised if their main audience isn't guys like us posting in this thread. Certainly now during quarantine, at least. Guys that appreciate the look and benefit of higher armholes. Comparable brands like SuSu or Cavour doesn't have this issue at all. Is it a North American influence, perhaps?

Out of curiosity, what sizes did everyone order on the field and safari jackets? The 36 safari @CaliforniaTux posted looks great, but @Imperatores is returning his field jacket because of low armholes. I’m receiving a 38 today and will post my thoughts when it comes in, but I’m wondering if as the size goes up, people are having more issue with the low armholes (so maybe a scaling issue).
I mention it in my initial rant, but I got two field jackets in 36 (and I wear 38 jackets, suits and overcoats). A navy and a natural linen. I'm keeping the navy, but will either return or sell the natural linen if anyone is interested. The armholes are significantly lower on the natural linen than the navy, so it's probably a combination of unfortunate production tolerance on an already low armhole that made my natural linen especially bad.

It would be interesting to compare armhole measurements among those of us that have received our jackets. My navy field jacket measures 27 cm from shoulder to armpit laying flat. The natural linen measures 29 cm.
 

DonRaphael

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I feel like low armholes have been a recurring complaint for a number of their products. I don't really understand why they have this tendency towards lower armholes. It's obviously common in lower end clothing because it works for the highest possible number of people, but does that approach fit S&M's customer base? I'd be surprised if their main audience isn't guys like us posting in this thread. Certainly now during quarantine, at least. Guys that appreciate the look and benefit of higher armholes. Comparable brands like SuSu or Cavour doesn't have this issue at all. Is it a North American influence, perhaps?



I mention it in my initial rant, but I got two field jackets in 36 (and I wear 38 jackets, suits and overcoats). A navy and a natural linen. I'm keeping the navy, but will either return or sell the natural linen if anyone is interested. The armholes are significantly lower on the natural linen than the navy, so it's probably a combination of unfortunate production tolerance on an already low armhole that made my natural linen especially bad.

It would be interesting to compare armhole measurements among those of us that have received our jackets. My navy field jacket measures 27 cm from shoulder to armpit laying flat. The natural linen measures 29 cm.
I'm pretty sure I've read that the bulk of their customers aren't from SF. Don't know how things are now during the pandemic.
 

Imperatores

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I'm pretty sure I've read that the bulk of their customers aren't from SF. Don't know how things are now during the pandemic.
I didn't necessarily mean guys that literally posts on SF, but guys that are similarly knowledgeable about and interested in classic menswear. Of course, I could be dead wrong about that. The products that always sells out almost instantly does seem to follow the tastes of our crowd quite closely, though. How many random guys do you see wearing linen safari jackets at all?

Maybe I'm underestimating the volume of basic dress shirts and core suits they sell compared to say Neo sportcoats and high-rise trousers. But even if that's the case, jackets like these in particular surely aren't aimed at a mass market audience? Hence details like higher armholes makes sense to me.
 

breakaway01

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I didn't necessarily mean guys that literally posts on SF, but guys that are similarly knowledgeable about and interested in classic menswear. Of course, I could be dead wrong about that. The products that always sells out almost instantly does seem to follow the tastes of our crowd quite closely, though. How many random guys do you see wearing linen safari jackets at all?

Maybe I'm underestimating the volume of basic dress shirts and core suits they sell compared to say Neo sportcoats and high-rise trousers. But even if that's the case, jackets like these in particular surely aren't aimed at a mass market audience? Hence details like higher armholes makes sense to me.
I am pretty sure from when Rick was still posting that the core audience is not SF-minded at all. The 3r2 jackets sold poorly at retail for example because most of their shoppers didn’t understand them.

As far as the low armholes go, I have a range of jackets from different manufacturers and I have measured the armholes myself because of these complaints. It’s hard to get a precise measurement but my S&M 36R contemporary measures the same as a SuSu 36R Havana (the original model). It is about 5 mm larger in the vertical dimension compared to my Caruso jackets. I honestly can’t really perceive a difference with the jackets on. How do your armholes measure?
 

Imperatores

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I am pretty sure from when Rick was still posting that the core audience is not SF-minded at all. The 3r2 jackets sold poorly at retail for example because most of their shoppers didn’t understand them.
I'd be interested to know how recent and current online sales compares to that initial impression. I wouldn't be surprised if drop-in customers off the street aren't SF-minded in the slightest, but it would surprise me if that extends to the vast majority of the online customer base as well. Looking at the SC's they've released so far this season (excluding MTO exlusives), 15 out of 31 have been Neo or double breasted. Granted, that doesn't say anything about have many they've stocked of each.

I'm not married to the idea that SF-minded customers are their main customer base, but surely we can all agree that a significant share of their products are clearly catering to that crowd? I just feel like aspects of their cuts are stuck in an awkward middle ground between mass market appeal and #menswear.

As far as the low armholes go, I have a range of jackets from different manufacturers and I have measured the armholes myself because of these complaints. It’s hard to get a precise measurement but my S&M 36R contemporary measures the same as a SuSu 36R Havana (the original model). It is about 5 mm larger in the vertical dimension compared to my Caruso jackets. I honestly can’t really perceive a difference with the jackets on. How do your armholes measure?
Yes, the suits and sportcoats aren't anywhere near as bad as these field jackets (or the natural linen in particular). You're also right that there's a bit more to how an armhole looks and feels than just a basic measurement from the shoulder to the armpit. My SuSu jackets (the old Hudson fit that is now called the Havana Pleated, I believe) and Cavour Mod 2 are both around 25 cm. My MTO and Neo jackets from S&M are hovering around 26 cm, while the single standard cut jacket I have measures 27. But when worn, the difference looks and feels much bigger than 1 cm between that standard cut and the Neo cuts I have, so I'm not sure how best to quantify the differences between armhole dimensions/cuts. I'd imagine that the chest and shoulder measurements have a part to play in it as well.
 

FlyingHorker

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I've no experience with the field jackets, but I've 0 issues with the armhole on 3 SCs I own. Two are neo, one is regular cut.

The SC cut is probably one of the most appealing aspects of S&M to me, especially the contemporary cut.
 

pyunghwa

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I am pretty sure from when Rick was still posting that the core audience is not SF-minded at all. The 3r2 jackets sold poorly at retail for example because most of their shoppers didn’t understand them.

As far as the low armholes go, I have a range of jackets from different manufacturers and I have measured the armholes myself because of these complaints. It’s hard to get a precise measurement but my S&M 36R contemporary measures the same as a SuSu 36R Havana (the original model). It is about 5 mm larger in the vertical dimension compared to my Caruso jackets. I honestly can’t really perceive a difference with the jackets on. How do your armholes measure?
I even recall a few years ago that Rick was even considering of discontinuing the neopolitan cut.

I have a number of their neopolitan sport coats and one of their standard suits. And I'm pretty sure the standard suit arm hole is noticeable lower.
 

nubirth

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I've tried emailing. Phone calls. Private messaging. HOW do you guys even CONTACT spier and mckay?
 

XxLogo

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I've tried emailing. Phone calls. Private messaging. HOW do you guys even CONTACT spier and mckay?
They are probably very busy with lockdown and sales. I have found messaging Rick on instagram to get a fast response
 

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