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SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by spiermackay, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. CMAc7

    CMAc7 Senior member

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    Speaking of shirts, what happened to the denim shirts that were supposed to be here last month? Also, weren't us online consumers supposed to get our new store a bit ago too?
     
  2. spiermackay

    spiermackay Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Wash problems. Wash colours are not coming out correct. Once wash ended up making the shirts green. The fun of developments.

    New site is a pain. The developers are working on a Magento platform and having issues merging the OTR and MTM stores together and migrating data from the old site to the new site. I don't have a solid timeline on it at this point. I don't want to say a date and then miss it again. Not fun.
     
  3. MrGimpy

    MrGimpy Senior member

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    You would have to ask Rick this question since he's the one exploring the option of a poll. My guess is that he's interested in having a little more data on this subject from a wide range of Spier & Mackay fans
     
  4. sans1886

    sans1886 Member

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    I really don't understand why people get Ludlow/Crosby stuff. SuitSupply blows it out of the water. Even on sale you're lucky to get Ludlows for $400.

    On another note...I FINALLY got my suits from S&M today. The delay was not at all the fault of S&M. However, Rick: I urge you not to send packages to the United States with a signature required upon delivery. This is very uncommon and can cause major problems with USPS. I don't know how Canada is, but USPS is a nightmare to deal with. They attempted delivery of my suits Saturday while I was out, and left a notice. Only, when I arrived at the post office Monday, the package wasn't there. They lost it. It took me four days to get it resolved, and I had almost given up. Surely other US-based users will back me up here.

    Anyway, on to the suits...

    First, let me disclaim that I'm no tailoring or fabric expert. I feel intimidated to even write this "review" in the face of all the knowledge on this forum. With that said, the quality is outstanding. I ordered a 42R and 44R, both of which are only sold in contemporary fit (why?). In my opinion, fit is similar in style to SuitSupply Napoli. I personally still rank the SS Lazio as the best fit of any suit I've ever tried on. However, the S&M suits are 60-75% of the price and the construction seems just as good. The material is less "fancy" but seems to be of fine quality. It feels thin, but very durable, and drapes well. I was shocked at how the two suits were crammed into that box but when I took them out they unfolded and had essentially no wrinkles. It was impressive. The shoulders are structured, but also soft enough that I find them aesthetically pleasing. All in all, it seems to be exactly how a suit should be cut in order to be a versatile business suit. The leg openings of the pants are just right...my experience is that the vast majority of the time, leg openings are too large on OTR pants. The openings are large enough, however, to not be too trendy.

    Now, I have to ask for some advice. I like a slim suit (i.e. SS Lazio). I'm 6'1", ~200 lbs. I wear a 44R in SS Lazio, and 42R in SS Napoli. A Ludlow in 42R looks like it's going to explode off of me. The 42R from S&M seems to fit perfectly in the shoulders, but the lapels seem to lie slightly less than flat. Can this be lessened a little bit by my tailor...maybe by moving the button? If not, is this an acceptable fit? It's such that if I were standing with my chest sort of puffed out and my hands in my pockets, the lapels would be lifted somewhat away from my chest. The 44R obviously doesn't do this, but then the shoulders are just wide enough that they don't look optimal. The 44R could work, though, and could be the prudent choice.

    With the pants...the 42R came with 36 waist pants that fit fine in the waist and look great when standing. However, when I sit, they draw slightly tight on my thighs and in my crotch. I think my Lazio pants do the same thing. It's certainly liveable, but by the book, are they too small? I will only be wearing them with suspenders, so maybe letting the waist out 1/4" or 1/2" and having no belt would free them up slightly when sitting? The 38 pants represent a relaxed fit, but don't look baggy. The waist would definitely have to be taken in. They are great while sitting but there isn't much definition while standing...a little looser than I'd like.

    So, input is welcome. I'm not putting up pictures because I figured many users would have an opinion just based on what I described. Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  5. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    Picture > Thousand words
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. linds_15

    linds_15 Senior member

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    Toronto
    

    this. i used to be a similar size to you at 6' 200lbs and i could never come close to wearing their 42R jacket in the contemporary. I always have gone with a 44 and has the pants taken in significantly and the jacket pinched in certain places. Throwing up pictures with yourself in both jackets will help Rick and/or others to chime in on what fits you better relative to what can be tailored and can't be.
     
  7. spiermackay

    spiermackay Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    RE: Signature. This is pretty important for shipping internationally. We only request it on orders above $300 CAD. We've run into issues in the past where we didn't require a signature and USPS shows it delivered and the customer would come back and simply say "I' never received it". We're out the full amount and shipping charges, etc, plus replacement cost. It's happened enough times that a signature is required now, and oddly enough, only with shipments through USPS.

    Fabric: At the moment, we use simple 100% worsted wools. Basic, all season, office appropriate suff (with exception to a few FW seasonal offerings that are heavier). These generally fall into the 265-275 gsm range in weight. Similar to what you will find in the same fabric category at SS. If you were to compare apples to apples, the difference is almost nil. But, we agree, that with some of the higher end blends they offer, there is a difference, in look, weight and handfeel, as the fabric make up is different.

    Re: Fit. From our experience the Contemporary and the Lazio fit pretty similar in all respects. The Napoli is a classic full cut and has a wide chest and shoulder to accommodate a lot of different body types. It's not an optimal fit, but because of the extra room, a lot of folks can fit into it and works well for their needs. It is usual for a 42 Napoli wearer, to size up to a 44 Contemporary. That said, the new factory suits are bit better balanced and the feedback from folks have tried the new suits like them a lot. In fact, we had a die hard SS customer who owns over a dozen SS suits in the shop yesterday and was awed at how well the jacket fits. Now, this is not going to be the case for everyone, as bodies are different.

    We stop slim at 40 because how the Slim and Contemporary patterns are graded. The slim works on a 5 cm grade, while the contemporary works on a 4 cm grade. Pretty technical, but because of the 1 cm difference, size 42 in both fits are near identical. Considering the Contemporary is already a modern "slimmer" fitting suit than a classic cut, there is no need. That said, we may introduce a 42 Slim, just because so many ask for it specifically. It always feels good to know you can fit a "slim" haha.

    Re: Trousers, you can ask for a trouser swap with the suit, so you get the best fitting size in the jacket and trouser.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. drdressed

    drdressed Member

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    Boston, MA
    Again, pictures would be useful, especially for the lapel question. I also don't know how much room there might be in the jackets to let out. Rick might be able to lend some wisdom there.

    As far as the trousers go. If you like a slim suit, I always say that we judge fit as a observer by how it looks when you are standing. There's a certain part of me that wants to say that getting used to it is a factor with the pants, but I do know a number of folks who sit most of the day who that is a deal breaker for them as far as comfort. Anyway, the aesthetic choice seems clear to me in your preferences stated, comfort seems to be issue.

    Also, people buy J. Crew stuff in my town because it's A: familiar B: convenient C: there isn't a SS in Boston D: the ad campaigns and styling of SS can be a little... aggressive.
     
  9. flvinny521

    flvinny521 Senior member

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    Can you tell us definitively which shirts are made with the new button position and which with the old? Are oxfords in the "Dress Shirt" category made with the old placement, while all other shirts in the category are the new placement? Only "Casual Shirt" oxfords? Some other arrangement?

    The order we discussed via e-mail yesterday will be my first oxfords after the button debate, so I'll have to pay attention to my older shirts versus the new ones. I'd like to be able to weigh in on a poll. Although StyleForum certainly doesn't represent ALL of your client base, I'd wager that we are significantly pickier than other clients with issues like this!
     
  10. sans1886

    sans1886 Member

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    I feel you on the shipping; USPS just sucks, period. I'm guessing that UPS/Fedex/etc. cost too much?

    I wasn't dumping on your fabric; I like it. You're right, and SS has very similar fabrics on the $399 suits. I just noted a distinction because people seem to know them by their Purple line fabrics and above. And at $500 minimum, it's certainly reflected in the price. I could also be wrong and it could be the case that lighter fabrics are present throughout their lines.

    The 44R Lazio seems to have shoulders that fit me slightly better; I think they are slightly softer and so conform more to the end of my shoulder. It's noticeably different than any other OTR suit I've ever tried (which includes every possible size/cut combination of Brooks Brothers 1818 and basically everything else cheaper than that). That is why I compare your contemporary fit to the Napoli, although the Napoli's shoulder measurement is slightly wider. Given your price and construction quality, though, I want to make one of these work so I can load up on suits and blazers from you guys.

    Good to know about the slim vs contemporary...it's actually a relief that I didn't have to worry about trying on four suits!

    I'll try to get pictures up later today. It's hard to keep a serious face when asking my wife to take pictures of me to post on a men's fashion forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  11. Ebichuman

    Ebichuman Senior member

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    North and East from the centre
  12. Burzan

    Burzan Senior member

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    If button down collar oxfords (non royal or pinpoint) is all that is on your order they will all have the old, lower, button placement, even the most recent run have the old placement. I believe all dress shirts (non button down collar) and all lighter material casual fabrics are on the higher button stance. Flannels and heavier fabrics for this fall are also on the lower placement like the oxfords.



    Here was some posts I found, commenting on the weight of the fabric working better for one placement over another rather than just casual vs dress shirt as the decision on placement.




    As for a definitive answer on what shirts have what placement, it's pretty easy to spot on the site once you know what to look for.

    [​IMG]




    To muddy the water though, as I was writing this up I saw the grey oxford and now don't know what to think lol. I own both these shirts and I will have to take a second look to see if my grey one actually does have the higher buttons. But yeah it is easy to tell what placement you are buying ahead of time from the pics on the site.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  13. flvinny521

    flvinny521 Senior member

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  14. winghus

    winghus Senior member

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  15. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    My wife got me 4 shirts from the recent sale. Love the gray OCDB. Lighter in person than advertised but something different from my standard colors. She has hidden the other shirts so I don't know what other colors are left.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. clarksdb

    clarksdb Senior member

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    Seeing that picture jbarwick has me thinking about....button position. How do you people wear a shirt with the top buttons undone. Seems a bit sloppy in my view. I always only have the top button undone.

    Nice shirt though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  17. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    Here is buttoned vs unbuttoned but this is a new shirt with some body. On my older more worn shirts, the button down collar helps keep the shirt closed while my spread collar shirts pull apart revealing more chest. For workplace reference, I am in a tie environment 4 days a week and do not feel out of place wearing this on a Friday.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. flvinny521

    flvinny521 Senior member

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    Looking at the photo, the shirt still says closed pretty well from the first to second button. I wouldn't call it sloppy unless the placket was drooping because the fabric was very thin and you could see a lot of chest between the buttons.
     
  19. sans1886

    sans1886 Member

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    Upon revisiting it, the 42R definitely seems too small. Unfortunately, the 44R might not fit quite right either. It's really just the lapel fit that I can't figure out. Pardon my half ass shirt and tie setup.

    42R:
    [​IMG]

    44R (lapels contact sides of collar but there is still a gap in the back):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Lazio 44R for reference...I didn't take closeup pic but it contacts the shirt collar all the way around.
    [​IMG]

    Maybe I'm just shaped funny? :/
     
  20. Burzan

    Burzan Senior member

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    Thanks for sharing, your pics confirm the grey having the lower button placement, I wonder why the site doesn't reflect that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016

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