SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

[UrbanComposition]

I could be wrong, as pics are a terrible way to assess fit issues, but it looks that your dropped right shoulder is causing bunching at the waist/hips. A good fitter/tailor can fix the issue by bringing up the material from the shoulder seam, but it’s quite expensive.

 

[patliean1]

Contemporary is slightly more generous than slim correct?

 

[lagsun]

the back looks very clean to other examples of backshots I've seen ITT of S&M jackets.

the front waist looks funky though, possibly too tight?

shoulders are fine. i have a dropped right shoulder too, and this gives me a lot more confidence.

do you also have sway back posture?

No expert but It is pulling at waist when buttoned suggest going to contemp in same size...if back pic shown while front is buttoned it looks fine. shoulders look ok, perhaps a hair wide but sizing down may be overkill. That is pretty good fit OTR imo.

I could be wrong, as pics are a terrible way to assess fit issues, but it looks that your dropped right shoulder is causing bunching at the waist/hips. A good fitter/tailor can fix the issue by bringing up the material from the shoulder seam, but it’s quite expensive.

Thanks for feedback. I think the waist issue was caused by poor photo posture. After wearing around the house for an hour, the jacket fit looks a lot better.

 

[7_rocket]

Just a bit large in shoulders and I heard the Contemporary 36R is similar to Slim 38R but with slight slimmer shoulders. Otherwise happy with rest of fit so far

I only have one suit from SM. It's their Neapolitan cut so it's slightly bigger than their mainline suits. I'm normally a 38R slim in their suits but since the NEO is cut a little bigger I went to a 36R in the contemporary and it fits good.

 

[CanadaCal]

Contemporary is slightly more generous than slim correct?

Correct. Not a huge difference

 

[induere_to]

Think I've managed to finally get my SM MTM shirts down to 90% perfect. Shout-out to Tim!

I am displeased by this. Lets get it to 100%

 

[An Acute Style]

Review of recent pickups.

Cardigan and turtleneck
I order the navy, but it has a purple hue to it. Not a true dark blue IMO. The fabric is very nice. I wear a 15 slim S&M shirt and 30 contemporary pants. The M cardigan fit well in the body, but was too snug in the hips. I’d probably need a large. The M turtleneck fit well.

Sweatshirt
Great fabric and construction. I have a 34.5 or 35 sleeve length. I found the sleeves short. Should be fine for a 33 sleeve. I found it slim fitting overall and too snug in the hips. I’ll have to size up to a Med. The neck hole was a little larger than I thought it would be.

Long Sleeve Polo
I wore a M in the short sleeve polo. I got the navy long sleeve polo. Fit is perfect pre wash. Perfect sleeve length. I ordered the white and green immediately. It looks so good under a sport coat. Really wanted the button down collar, but the spread is also really cool.

 

[cloud82]

Also really wanted a button down collar for the long sleeve polo (next year?) but will prob get couple of current versions as well...

 

[spiermackay]

Review of recent pickups.

Cardigan and turtleneck
I order the navy, but it has a purple hue to it. Not a true dark blue IMO. The fabric is very nice. I wear a 15 slim S&M shirt and 30 contemporary pants. The M cardigan fit well in the body, but was too snug in the hips. I’d probably need a large. The M turtleneck fit well.

Sweatshirt
Great fabric and construction. I have a 34.5 or 35 sleeve length. I found the sleeves short. Should be fine for a 33 sleeve. I found it slim fitting overall and too snug in the hips. I’ll have to size up to a Med. The neck hole was a little larger than I thought it would be.

Long Sleeve Polo
I wore a M in the short sleeve polo. I got the navy long sleeve polo. Fit is perfect pre wash. Perfect sleeve length. I ordered the white and green immediately. It looks so good under a sport coat. Really wanted the button down collar, but the spread is also really cool.

Great feedback. Funny, the turtleneck and cardigan are based on the same specs. Odd the hip of the cardigan is snug, especially since the button front provides more slack.

Re: Sweatshirt. First jump into this. Gather feedback and improve. You all are guinea pigs. We based this initial run around similar sizing of Reigning Champ, since that is the feedback we herd most about to mimic. We'll adjust based on our market needs.

 

[James1051]

Can anyone comment on how the oxford chinos compare to the normal casual cotton chinos? In terms of fabric weight / appropriateness for wear in cooler weather?

 

[kczsilence]

Review of recent pickups.

Cardigan and turtleneck
I order the navy, but it has a purple hue to it. Not a true dark blue IMO. The fabric is very nice. I wear a 15 slim S&M shirt and 30 contemporary pants. The M cardigan fit well in the body, but was too snug in the hips. I’d probably need a large. The M turtleneck fit well.

Sweatshirt
Great fabric and construction. I have a 34.5 or 35 sleeve length. I found the sleeves short. Should be fine for a 33 sleeve. I found it slim fitting overall and too snug in the hips. I’ll have to size up to a Med. The neck hole was a little larger than I thought it would be.

Long Sleeve Polo
I wore a M in the short sleeve polo. I got the navy long sleeve polo. Fit is perfect pre wash. Perfect sleeve length. I ordered the white and green immediately. It looks so good under a sport coat. Really wanted the button down collar, but the spread is also really cool.

I ordered all the turtlenecks in a size Small because I lost a bit of weight. My noggin is quite large (I guess?) and it barely fit through. Scared I would've ripped the one I was trying.

38R slim, 5'9 and fluctuating around 145. Small seems short and pretty tight on me strangely enough.

Are people wearing anything under these as a base?

Rick, should I be sizing up to medium? I'm attempting to get back to 150-155ish for weight. I'm in a weird in-between of small and medium now.

 

[spiermackay]

I have a question that I've found various answers to, with some leaning towards pretty biased rhetoric, and some that seems like parroted talking points that don't quite apply to suits. Perhaps the gents at S&M can help me out with this one too:

Despite the stigma of "Made in China" (which I'll admit made me wince a bit with suiting initially), it appears that menswear like Spier & Mackay and Suitsupply make blazers and suits that are pretty much on par in quality and construction to some of the $1,000+ garments sold by Zegna, Canali, Armoury, and local NY/DC boutiques that have their garments made "in Italy". Sure, the more expensive brands I mentioned are usually full-canvas, but the hand-sewn details in certain areas are both apparent on the S&M/SS offerings as well.

Hell, the luxury brands get their fabrics from the same mills (VBC, Lanifico, etc) as S&M/SS. So in the end, are the Eidos/Zegna/Armoury/Drakes jackets actually WORTH the extra $1,000 over a very similary S&M/SS? Or is it simply a matter of "We can charge an insane amount because there's a tag that says 'Made in Italy' and our company's name is known as luxury"?

Here is my take from the inside, mind you there may be a slight bias as we do manufacture in China.

The tier 1 factories in China are fully capable of producing top quality luxury products. Right down to the handwork. Their experience and skill is very well established and frankly surprising since Western companies do not really look at Chinese manufactures for "luxury" but they can absolutely achieve the quality. Problem is most western brands go to China solely for a better price. That said, prices and labour are rising in China at a rate that would make most heads spin. I wish salaries were rising as quickly here. It's actually becoming more and more difficult to find skilled factory workers as they keep seeking out better, higher paying jobs. To attract and keep factory labour, factories have to offer higher wages, and the cycle is ever moving forward as it has been for the past decade or so. BUT, the skill level and infrastructure required to make a top quality suit takes a very long time to establish and lower cost countries have yet to catch up. So for the time being, China still holds a competitive advantage and from by all accounts, will for the next 5-7 years. For example, I was just at a new factory that just opened over the weekend where the owners have invested over $80M USD for a state of the art facility with a whole shitload of automation. Mind you, the garment is still sewn by skilled humans, but a lot of the non skilled work is now automated. The entire idea is to keep efficiency up, costs down to keep the advantage as the garment exodus from China has already begun for low cost goods.

Getting back on track, the Chinese will produce whatever is asked of them, as long as you pay for it. Problem is, most western brands who manufacture in China, have a price target. Sometimes to meet that target, corners have to be cut and quality compromises are made. If you ask for a suit that needs to meet $X cost, they will say yes, and give you that suit. It might not be the quality you asked for but it will meet the cost target and that's fine for most brands as price is the single most important factor.

We do things a bit reversed. We have a quality target then ask for the best price for that quality. For examples, all of our trimmings: The canvas, the chest piece, the shoulder pad, lining, even the thread is from top European or Japanese suppliers who supply the top Italian brands. Same fabrics and trimmings. We do ask for it and pay for it.

Italy on the other hand is bit funny. They still have a rich history of high skilled garment manufacturing, but from what I've hear from many, many sources it has become very inconsistent (ahem, Eidos). Also, oddly enough, a number of large Chinese enterprises have set up shop in Italy, with a flood of migrant Chinese workers to produce "Made in Italy" product. But from the marketing perspective of "Made in Italy" lux brand, the full canvas and tons of handwork are what is expected of the brands producing there and that does cost more.

So yes, the Italian Full Canvas, with tons of handwork is better, not because it's made in Italy, but more because that is what is asked for by the brand, full canvas and more handwork > Half Canvas and less handwork. Not to say that it can't be done in China, but it's rarely asked for. I hope that makes sense. But as it was pointed out earlier, I personally feel that the $1000+ premium seems a bit steep and is mostly diminishing returns. Made in Italy is more of a marketing ploy now than a quality issue. In fact we were working with a Zegna owned factory in China. I was told my several staff there that they produce quite a few pieces that are in semi-finished form at the Chinese factory only to be sent to Italy for finishing to get the "Made in Italy" label qualification.

I will say that the established Italian and Japanese brands have years and years of experience and have really dialed in their patterns. That takes time no matter who you are. A well dialed in pattern is the holy grail for a suit brand. That's something we continually work towards in hopes of increasing our own brand value.

There is A LOT more to say on this subject, but it's really late where I am now, and I need to sleep.

 

[jdp234]

@spiermackay excellent and interesting post. You obviously work extremely hard to provide a top quality product at a fair price. Thanks!

 

[Otony2300]

Just received the DB Peak lapel overcoat in Olive. size is 38S. I was hesitating with 38R because of sleeve lenght.
Now with a shirt and blazer on, nothing came out of the sleeves, they are almost the same lenght. Usually, I have a gap of 1" between overcoat sleeves lenght and shirt. Do you think size is OK ?

 

[Burzan]

Just received the DB Peak lapel overcoat in Olive. size is 38S. I was hesitating with 38R because of sleeve lenght.
Now with a shirt and blazer on, nothing came out of the sleeves, they are almost the same lenght. Usually, I View attachment 1056480 have a gap of 1" between overcoat sleeves lenght and shirt. Do you think size is OK ?

View attachment 1056481

I think you should grab the regular, looks like it would be more balanced with the extra inch of sleeve. The extra couple inches in body length will look great too.