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losrockets

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Really enjoying this discussion. FWIW I wasn't knocking the current S&M Neapolitan cut - which I know takes inspiration from Eidos and other brands. Also, this is my last night of being the hospital float psychiatrist (4 weeks of this, 8 weeks total this year). Excited to return to the land of the living and all my Spier & Mackay shirts/jackets, as convenient as it has been to live in scrubs for the past month.
 

The Dirk

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I have written thousands of pages on the topic so it pains me to answer a question like "Do you agree with the law, in this case?" with a simple yes, but I'm not going to give you a law review article on the topic explaining all of the ways I would like to see the rules shifted. So, generally, yes, I agree with the law in that I believe it strikes the right balance of incentives and benefits to innovators and the general public.

Another short and painful answer: I am 100% convinced that I agree with other companies being able to legally copy the EG Galway.

There are four common intellectual property regimes: patent; trademark; copyright; and trade secret. There are differences in rules across countries, but generally there is significant harmony across borders, so I'm going to pretend it is all one universal system. I'm also going to ignore trade secrets and copyrights for now, because they aren't the primary issues here. But I would write about how those systems can be used for clothing/shoe design.

If the design of the EG Galway was patented (for example, a US Design Patent), EG would own the design for a limited period of time (15 years for a design patent, 20 years for a utility patent), after which the design passes into the public domain. If it were patented, and it was within the life of the patent, and there were copies, I would not be cool with it. But EG doesn't have a patent, and even if they had, it would be well past the life of the patent, as EG claims to have been making the Galway for the best part of a century (https://www.edwardgreen.com/discovery/galway). Once the patent life expires, the invention passes into the public domain for all to copy. This is a feature of the system, not a bug. The hypothetical negotiation between the inventor and the government is that the government will enforce a limited monopoly for the innovation in exchange for the innovator bringing something to market that everyone will be able to copy after the limited period expires. It is what we believe is good for society and provides enough incentive for the innovators to continue to innovate. (Don't ask me if I believe this hypothetical is true or necessary to create innovation!) So I don't believe there are any conceivable patent rights being violated by copies of the Galway boot.

Trademarks protect names, logos, taglines, etc.; the branding of the product and the company. In this case, the name Edward Green is a trademark and the name Galway is a trademark (registered or not, it is a trademark). Because Edward Green owns the rights to those names, the copies cannot use those names. If they did, I would be opposed. It gets tricky when companies don't copy, but use something that is arguably confusingly similar. For example, if Vass were to call their version the Valway, I might argue that is trademark infringement. I will leave those edge cases unexplored for now and simply say that if people aren't copying the names, then it isn't a trademark infringement.

Lastly, over time, a company can develop trademark rights in product design. For example, the shape of the Coke bottle is a trademark; people know it is a Coke product simply by the shape of the bottle. I believe Edward Green could make an argument that the distinctive design element on the side of the boot could be a trademark. As they say, "the Galway is instantly recognisable from the distinctive, curved arrowhead on its side." However, to establish these trademark rights, a company needs to police its mark by proactively attacking copies and maintaining sole use of the design element in the marketplace. The existence of copies demonstrates that the design element is not, in fact, an enforceable trademark. Based on the numerous copies on the market and the lack of enforcement, it does not appear to me that EG has an enforceable trademark.

There are times that people/companies follow the letter of the law and I still believe that there is something ethically unsound about the practice. I don't feel that way about these particular IP rights that I have described. I believe the system is (approximately) appropriately designed to address these concerns and to promote fairness in commerce.

Ok, I'm stopping for now...
I'm not a fan of IP, but I still enjoyed your thoughts on this. I'm a radical free marketeer, and thus oppsed to any government imposed monopoly privilege. That's all I'll say about this all, as I don't feel like going into a deep discussion here on this thread.
 

Patrick R

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I'm not a fan of IP, but I still enjoyed your thoughts on this. I'm a radical free marketeer, and thus oppsed to any government imposed monopoly privilege.

Thanks. I get it. In my experience, small innovative businesses will always get killed by larger established businesses without government intervention in providing enforceable rights. The key is keeping the rights limited so we don’t unbalance the scales.
 

hms056

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I wouldn't call that an unsightly back. I actually quite like the fit. Shorten those sleeves and you'll be well on your way.

I think the 38R looks better and will be good to go once you fix the sleeve length. But, if you aren't comfortable with the fit in the chest, maybe that should be addressed as well.

The back is not bad for RTW and will likely look better (1) when you remove the basting stitches and (2) after you break it in a bit. My first SM jacket had a crazy looking back the first two wears and then settled into a really nice fit.

Wait, that’s the Air Force Blue? The color is way off either in your pics (most likely) or the website pics.

38R, though.

Thanks all for the feedback-38R it is. @Wilson13, believe it or not my pictures are actually a fairly close representation of the color, though it loses a bit of the petrol-ness. I was surprised when I first opened the box as it is a deeper blue than the product shots on the site. Still beautiful though!
 

XWT

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With the obvious caveat that all bodies are different, I'd say that a size 40 seems too small for your build. I'm your height, though a bit heavier right now and maybe more of a gym rat. But when I'm around 190, I'm still about a size 42-44 depending on brand/cut. S&M, even the contemporary fit, is toward the slim end of the spectrum in my opinion.

Though not always the case, shoulder divots often mean the jacket is too small. So with that in mind, along with what I said above, I'd definitely size up to a 42. But it's weird that you have a S&M jacket in size 40 that fits well while this one doesn't--maybe one is mislabeled?
I'm quite certain it is not. Measurements are on point with what is indicated on the web site for the garment. It's a quite heavier fabric, and doesn't have the same shoulder construction.

At 5'11" and size 40/42, you should be wearing a regular length, not short. Being long isn't really "what the Neapolitan cut is all about." The defining "Neapolitan" characteristics are more along the lines of unpadded shoulders with spalla camicia, wider lapels, open quarters, and quarter lining IMO. I'll gently say that if you think a 40R S&M jacket is too long on you, maybe you should evolve your opinion on what proper jacket length is. (Again, I say that without seeing pics and with the caveat that maybe your proportions really do result in a 40R being long on you, though unlikely.)

Thanks for the help.

Still not capable of uploading pics today, but it's still on my mind. I went in a local store to try on a few jackets of comparable cut (LBM, if you're curious) and I do aknowledge that I'm now due to wear 42R for Spier and MacKay products.

All my other suits and sportcoats are 40R, across various brands of many differnt price points.

For lenght, I agree that I'm not used to the 30 inch+ lenght, which was normative in the past and is now back in style.
 

spiermackay

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Thanks for the help.

Still not capable of uploading pics today, but it's still on my mind. I went in a local store to try on a few jackets of comparable cut (LBM, if you're curious) and I do aknowledge that I'm now due to wear 42R for Spier and MacKay products.

All my other suits and sportcoats are 40R, across various brands of many differnt price points.

For lenght, I agree that I'm not used to the 30 inch+ lenght, which was normative in the past and is now back in style.

Which brands/cuts do you normally wear? Keep in mind the 40 has a 18.1" shoulder (46 cm)
 

Ezio

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@spiermackay Can you guys make more casual band collar shirts? Like, not in the fancy dress shirt fabrics, but in chambray or linen or something?

Something like this:

2GZH7VBnvwht_lg.jpg


I have a couple band collar shirts from the Gap, and while I seem to be the only person who wears it out here, it's a shirt style I really like.
 

XWT

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Which brands/cuts do you normally wear? Keep in mind the 40 has a 18.1" shoulder (46 cm)

I mostyl wear Ermenegildo Zegna and Isaia, but I have a Spier and MacKay sport coat (Abraham Moon Merino Tweed) in 40R Contemporary which fits well and does not cause divots. My jackets are usually not on the slim side.

It think that at the reason for the poor fit is at the crossroads of me bulking up in the chest and shoulders in the last year, and the unpadded spalla camicia construction of the neopolitain jacket being different from what I'm used to.

Yesterday I went to a local store and tried a few LBM jackets, which are of a similar cut, and found that the 42 did fit my shoulders better.
 

smansoor

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Friends, some questions -
Any markers on the site to indicate whether a specific suit is Neapolitan V1/V2/V3? Which cut has the widest armhole? Are there any shoulder width differences between versions 3 vs 2 vs 1? How does the Guabello 130 compare to VBC 110 in fabric feel, drape and durability? I own the latter fabric in a couple of SS suits. Thanks all!!
 

jtorres94

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@spiermackay Can you guys make more casual band collar shirts? Like, not in the fancy dress shirt fabrics, but in chambray or linen or something?

Something like this:

2GZH7VBnvwht_lg.jpg


I have a couple band collar shirts from the Gap, and while I seem to be the only person who wears it out here, it's a shirt style I really like.
I'm sure you can do this via MTM
 

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