spanish shoe brands

[Chulillo]

1,000,000 pairs of shoes a year... that is insane... no wonder they couldn't hold the fort... although it is always sad to see a company go down... specially with that many people working there.

 

[chogall]

Love the drama here. Got one guy speaking the ugly statements and everyone jumped on him.

Spanish shoes are mediocre at best in quality but great pricing. Cheap shoes are cheap for very good reasons - usually it's reduction in construction quality and labor cost. Or rarely, a reduction in company margins. It's always a manufacturing problem, no artistry here.

Carmina can stay at that pricing because of the cost savings. They might make it cheaper if they move their factories to Vietnam or Laos, like many of the much bigger shoe companies.

 

[vmss]

I also find a lot of English and Italian shoes overrated. I have seen a lot of santoni, ferragammos, Giorgio, and many other with mediocre leather and glued construction. Also same story with English footwear where most of the brands rely more on their heritage fame than what they truly produce in present day.

I find in the price point of 400-500 no English shoes or Italian can matchup with carmina. Look at c and j that is even more expensive than carmina, but I do find carmina offer better quality at even a cheaper price point.

 

[CASCAIS]

Love the drama here. Got one guy speaking the ugly statements and everyone jumped on him.

Spanish shoes are mediocre at best in quality but great pricing. Cheap shoes are cheap for very good reasons - usually it's reduction in construction quality and labor cost. Or rarely, a reduction in company margins. It's always a manufacturing problem, no artistry here.

Carmina can stay at that pricing because of the cost savings. They might make it cheaper if they move their factories to Vietnam or Laos, like many of the much bigger shoe companies.

Well, I guess the thing was not the price, but the particular bespoke shoemaker they were talking about and the critics somenone made about his job.

 

[chogall]



I also find a lot of English and Italian shoes overrated. I have seen a lot of santoni, ferragammos, Giorgio, and many other with mediocre leather and glued construction. Also same story with English footwear where most of the brands rely more on their heritage fame than what they truly produce in present day.

I find in the price point of 400-500 no English shoes or Italian can matchup with carmina. Look at c and j that is even more expensive than carmina, but I do find carmina offer better quality at even a cheaper price point.

Neh. The cost cutting is real.

But hey, there's little construction difference between Cole Hann made in India GY welted shoes vs G&G or whatever other high end brand you fancy. Just some cost cutting here and cost cutting there on top of shifting production to low cost of labor countries.

Carmina makes fine shoes but it's a value brand for a very good reason.

 

[asturiano]



Neh. The cost cutting is real.

But hey, there's little construction difference between Cole Hann made in India GY welted shoes vs G&G or whatever other high end brand you fancy. Just some cost cutting here and cost cutting there on top of shifting production to low cost of labor countries.

Carmina makes fine shoes but it's a value brand for a very good reason.

'

If Carmina/ C&J had the same basic costs for materials/ margin/etcs, just the fact that the shoes is manufactured in Spain vs UK is one of the main reasons for the price difference. We are talking of 40% difference between minimum wages within countries

 

[CASCAIS]

'

If Carmina/ C&J had the same basic costs for materials/ margin/etcs, just the fact that the shoes is manufactured in Spain vs UK is one of the main reasons for the price difference. We are talking of 40% difference between minimum wages within countries

Right.

There is some tendence to underrate the quality of spanish shoes. At the same time there is kind of appreciation on the ratio price/quality of some spanish brands, what sometimes leads to think that it is just a matter of worse quality when, actually, the wages make the main difference. And that´s applicable to basically every Spanish product. Note that I am not saying that every spanish product is good, but that, for a similar quality, prices are lower.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

I've heard some crazy **** coming from @SartodiNapoli ... but now he's actually starting to lose it. Claiming Carmina is made in Mexico? This is slander. It's completely incorrect.

I have properly answered to this defamations here;

http://www.styleforum.net/t/241469/carmina-shoes-official-affiliate-thread/14880

There has been such rumour for quite some time. It is not the first time I heard it. One of the problems that Carmina has (or had I don't know now) is that they don't change the soles of their shoes. They used to direct customers to recommended cobblers. Some of them do a horrible job on the resoles like attaching new soles by mackay (blake) rather than by goodyear machine. It is only the people that had problems with the repairs the ones that told me about Mexico. It is for me a clear case of slander as well.

Now that Matefemale has been banned, It surprised nicely, and I thank you for it, you as industry insider said I was saying what was being said on the Spanish Industry, so this is not any clear case of slander.

have properly answered to this defamations here;

http://www.styleforum.net/t/241469/carmina-shoes-official-affiliate-thread/14880

1,000,000 pairs of shoes a year... that is insane... no wonder they couldn't hold the fort... although it is always sad to see a company go down... specially with that many people working there.

1 million pairs was not sure if normal, but what a factory with close to 1000 workers could perfectly do as i have been told my family one did, as they got the award of the most currency $ makers several years in a row, women only, my mother has remembered that we ( they actually) did military men boots after the war, and when working for the Nation, it has to be huge numbers, not sure if in Mallorca they did, but i am pretty sure yes, as it was declared a main nationalindustry for the government circa being nationaliced.

On the golden industrial age of shoes, the late 40´s´s to early 70´s when sneakers as today´s were not yet invented, so every man was on dress shoes, as well as on almost any town corner was a tailor, shirtmaker and everything was done bespoke and at normal prices, not sadly as today, that is a deluxe article for just a few.

Everyone got his tailor, dress shoes, ties, shirts, or at least the Sunday suit to go even to watch football elegantly suited on. Those are the years i would like to have lived on.

When the brands and industrial fashion became popular on the 80´s, it all was destroyed. Maybe the only city in the world where tailoring/bespoke it remains yet popular for the normal public is Naples and other reason i moved there, where normal people commisions yet bespoke suits but for weddings purpose only.

 

[Jmm722]



'

If Carmina/ C&J had the same basic costs for materials/ margin/etcs, just the fact that the shoes is manufactured in Spain vs UK is one of the main reasons for the price difference. We are talking of 40% difference between minimum wages within countries

Why even bother responding to someone who calls $400+ shoes "value brand for a good reason." It's an asinine statement for people to make to the general public, but shows a clear detachment from reality.

By that logic then St. Crispin is the same as Meermin LM, except for some fit and finish. Many high end companies also charge massive margins due solely to their brand cache.

 

[chogall]

'

If Carmina/ C&J had the same basic costs for materials/ margin/etcs, just the fact that the shoes is manufactured in Spain vs UK is one of the main reasons for the price difference. We are talking of 40% difference between minimum wages within countries

I've talked to Asian manufacturers who can make the same outside apparent spec compare to Carmina or C&J, and even they said its extremely low margin, if any, to distribute/sell the same spec shoes via retail.

Or has Spain sunk so low that its cost of labor is inching towards SEA levels?

 

[chogall]

Why even bother responding to someone who calls $400+ shoes "value brand for a good reason." It's an asinine statement for people to make to the general public, but shows a clear detachment from reality.

By that logic then St. Crispin is the same as Meermin LM, except for some fit and finish. Many high end companies also charge massive margins due solely to their brand cache.

That is correct. The method of construction of Meermin LM is not too far different from SC; both of them used leather stiffeners, hand welted, and machine sewn outsole. SC can charges a premium as it doesn't aggressively cut cost on leather usage, has been in business far longer, has more refined lasts and patterns, and offers face to face customer services via retail channels and trunk shows. Meermin's price won't be as low if its sells through a retail business model instead of its direct to consumer model.

p.s., this is Styleforum, where people pay $1k+ for distressed fashion boots or $5k+ for bespoke shoes.

 

[CASCAIS]



I've talked to Asian manufacturers who can make the same outside apparent spec compare to Carmina or C&J, and even they said its extremely low margin, if any, to distribute/sell the same spec shoes via retail.

Or has Spain sunk so low that its cost of labor is inching towards SEA levels?

Well... I don't know, but the fact is they do with many items...

 

[chogall]

Well... I don't know, but the fact is they do with many items...

And the Asian manufacturers I've talked to are volume shoe manufacturers with a GY/handwelted shoe operation on the side. I am certain that they have larger economy of scale compare to Carmina. Or than 1MM shoes per year volume of Yanko quoted earlier in this thread.

Nothing against the Carmina/Meermin or other Spanish shoe manufacturers/shoemakers, just pointing out the reality vs forum hype.

 

[vmss]

I've talked to Asian manufacturers who can make the same outside apparent spec compare to Carmina or C&J, and even they said its extremely low margin, if any, to distribute/sell the same spec shoes via retail.

Or has Spain sunk so low that its cost of labor is inching towards SEA levels?

Still doesnt make sense to me. I have carmina and I do have aaian shoes. Carmina uses leather materials, leather insole, leather outsole, leather uppers and stacked leather heel compare the asian ones used paperboard heels, poron insoles etc uses differences. Also the leather quality used in asian manufacturing are not the best either.

 

[Verrihappy]



I also find a lot of English and Italian shoes overrated. I have seen a lot of santoni, ferragammos, Giorgio, and many other with mediocre leather and glued construction. Also same story with English footwear where most of the brands rely more on their heritage fame than what they truly produce in present day.

I find in the price point of 400-500 no English shoes or Italian can matchup with carmina. Look at c and j that is even more expensive than carmina, but I do find carmina offer better quality at even a cheaper price point.

Yep, Carmina is better than Crockett Jones, only in the warped minds of clueless wannabes.