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Sources of trouser inspiration: pale chinos

Panama

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I will fall on my sword on this forum repeating that people should not wear oxfords outside of suits. Please, for the love of all that is holy. Stop wearing oxfords outside of suits. It looks so terrible.

Also, don't know what "colored oxfords" means, but if your leather shoes are any color except brown or black, please stop wearing those too. This includes tan.
Just to give you nightmares...

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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Oxfords worn outside the context of suits and shoes in weird colors is very much this vibe

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Dress shoe sneaker hybrids. Colorful brogues. Business casual. Dapper. Guys who wear ties without a tailored jacket. Middle-aged dude in a v-neck sweater and chinos. Carpeted offices with conference rooms where one wall is just a big window. "Quick meetings." Tech disruptors and business parks. $15 ham sandwiches that come in those little plastic, triangular containers.
 

Panama

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Oxfords worn outside the context of suits and shoes in weird colors is very much this vibe

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Dress shoe sneaker hybrids. Colorful brogues. Business casual. Dapper. Guys who wear ties without a tailored jacket. Middle-aged dude in a v-neck sweater and chinos. Carpeted offices with conference rooms where one wall is just a big window. "Quick meetings." Tech disruptors and business parks. $15 ham sandwiches that come in those little plastic, triangular containers.
Well at 51 I am probably passed middle age, but yes Chinos and Tan Oxfords with an OCBD or an Albini fabric dress shirt with a V neck sweater or slipover, or waistcoat. I do also follow your preferred choice of a Crew with an OCBD too...


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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Business casual is prob the worst aesthetic in modern menswear history. Just a totally depressing outfit that doesn't achieve what tailoring achieves, which is to help broaden the shoulder and chest, and thus make the waist look slimmer by comparison. Yet, it tries to cling to a "professional yet casual" look. It gives you none of the flavor of good casualwear, and none of the flattering effects of tailoring. It's just vanilla bland. And worse yet, now guys randomly combine things without any sense of language in clothing, like pairing ties without a tailored jacket or oxfords without a suit.
 

Panama

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Business casual is prob the worst aesthetic in modern menswear history. Just a totally depressing outfit that doesn't achieve what tailoring achieves, which is to help broaden the shoulder and chest, and thus make the waist look slimmer by comparison. Yet, it tries to cling to a "professional yet casual" look. It gives you none of the flavor of good casualwear, and none of the flattering effects of tailoring. It's just vanilla bland. And worse yet, now guys randomly combine things without any sense of language in clothing, like pairing ties without a tailored jacket or oxfords without a suit.
I haven't worn a suit in 20 years. However as much as I like to see great Italian suits from Caruso etc. I am more likely to see a polyester specimen.
 

Boggis

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I quite enjoy wearing a suit, and love how they look, but the opportunities to do so are pretty rare. My office is a jeans and a t-shirt type place, so wearing a suit makes me look like I'm heading off for a job interview on my lunch.

@dieworkwear do suede brown Oxfords spark your ire as much as tan shoes? I share your aversion to leather oxfords in a casual outfit, but I think suede could work .
I have a personal loathing of Loafers, not sure what it is but they just dont do it for me. I know they're a menswear staple, but not for me. It makes me consider whether suede Oxfords could fill that niche that loafers do for others.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I quite enjoy wearing a suit, and love how they look, but the opportunities to do so are pretty rare. My office is a jeans and a t-shirt type place, so wearing a suit makes me look like I'm heading off for a job interview on my lunch.

@dieworkwear do suede brown Oxfords spark your ire as much as tan shoes? I share your aversion to leather oxfords in a casual outfit, but I think suede could work .
I have a personal loathing of Loafers, not sure what it is but they just dont do it for me. I know they're a menswear staple, but not for me. It makes me consider whether suede Oxfords could fill that niche that loafers do for others.
Yes, I think oxford is the demarcating line. Some caveats: some very well dressed people I know wear oxfords outside of suits. I know Bruce Boyer often wears suede Clev oxfords with sport coats. I've seen Mark Cho at The Armoury recommend oxfords in non-suit contexts a few times in his videos, although in one video, he says he personally believes that oxfords are for suits (so who knows). FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Mark himself wearing oxfords outside the context of a suit.

I don't believe in historical cosplay, but when you look at the "golden age" of classic men's style, suits were worn with oxfords and more casual shoes, such as loafers, derbies, and chukkas, depending on the context. Oxfords, however, were only worn with suits. In other words, you can dress a suit down with more casual shoes; but casual outfits called for casual shoes only.

Voxsartoria has a really good online photo archive of well-dressed men from about 1930 to 1980. Just look at some of the combos there. If someone isn't wearing a suit, then I think they'd do better in very casual shoes. Also likely not in tan because tan is a very specific color that requires some attention to how things are put together. Sometimes tan works; often it doesn't because the wearer doesn't have the wardrobe for it. Easier to go with mid or dark brown.

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breakaway01

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Yes, I think oxford is the demarcating line. Some caveats: some very well dressed people I know wear oxfords outside of suits. I know Bruce Boyer often wears suede Clev oxfords with sport coats. I've seen Mark Cho at The Armoury recommend oxfords in non-suit contexts a few times in his videos, although in one video, he says he personally believes that oxfords are for suits (so who knows). FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Mark himself wearing oxfords outside the context of a suit.

I don't believe in historical cosplay, but when you look at the "golden age" of classic men's style, suits were worn with oxfords and more casual shoes, such as loafers, derbies, and chukkas, depending on the context. Oxfords, however, were only worn with suits. In other words, you can dress a suit down with more casual shoes; but casual outfits called for casual shoes only.

Voxsartoria has a really good online photo archive of well-dressed men from about 1930 to 1980. Just look at some of the combos there. If someone isn't wearing a suit, then I think they'd do better in very casual shoes.
To an extent I disagree with your contention that oxfords can only be worn with suits. I think some oxfords can be worn with a more formal sportcoat/tie combo.
To me, navy sportcoat plus grey flannel trousers in a Michigan winter doesn’t work with loafers.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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To an extent I disagree with your contention that oxfords can only be worn with suits. I think some oxfords can be worn with a more formal sportcoat/tie combo.
To me, navy sportcoat plus grey flannel trousers in a Michigan winter doesn’t work with loafers.
Why not derbies?
 

breakaway01

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Why not derbies?
I do wear derbies too. I just feel that whether the lacing is open or closed is just one element of formality, especially when the trouser hem covers most of the lacing. Color (black vs nonblack), longwing vs shortwing vs captoe, matter more to me IMO.
So why is a black chelsea more casual when arguably some of its elements are the most formal (kind of a black wholecut)?
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I do wear derbies too. I just feel that whether the lacing is open or closed is just one element of casualness, especially when the trouser hem covers most of the lacing. Color (black vs nonblack), longwing vs shortwing vs captoe, matter more to me IMO.
So why is a black chelsea more casual when arguably some of its elements are the most formal (kind of a black wholecut)?
Not sure what your second paragraph means. Why is a black Chelsea considered more casual than an oxford? Because it's an elasticated boot. This is despite it being black or a wholecut (in some instances). Also why I think the biggest demarcation for casualness/ formality is the style of shoe, not color, detailing, or material.
 

breakaway01

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Not sure what your second paragraph means. Why is a black Chelsea considered more casual than an oxford? Because it's an elasticated boot. This is despite it being black or a wholecut (in some instances). Also why I think the biggest demarcation for casualness/ formality is the style of shoe, not color, detailing, or material.
I find it odd that you are so fixated on an oxford being by definition always more formal than a derby simply because of the lacing, and that a oxford should therefore never be worn outside of a suit. It strikes me as odd because you are in other regards apparently willing to stretch boundaries of formal/casual. For example, the long overcoat with casual wear.

My point about the chelsea boot is that one could choose to fixate on “black wholecut” as the definition of formal footwear when that’s plainly not true. I just don’t see shoe lacing as the sine qua non of shoe formality.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I find it odd that you are so fixated on an oxford being by definition always more formal than a derby simply because of the lacing, and that a oxford should therefore never be worn outside of a suit. It strikes me as odd because you are in other regards apparently willing to stretch boundaries of formal/casual. For example, the long overcoat with casual wear.

My point about the chelsea boot is that one could choose to fixate on “black wholecut” as the definition of formal footwear when that’s plainly not true. I just don’t see shoe lacing as the sine qua non of shoe formality.
I agree formal/informal can be mixed in other contexts.

I've just never seen anyone wear oxfords well outside the context of a suit. Do you have photos of good outfits being worn this way?
 

Panama

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I do wear derbies too. I just feel that whether the lacing is open or closed is just one element of formality, especially when the trouser hem covers most of the lacing. Color (black vs nonblack), longwing vs shortwing vs captoe, matter more to me IMO.
So why is a black chelsea more casual when arguably some of its elements are the most formal (kind of a black wholecut)?
Nobody in real life would notice.
 

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