Sopranos: The Last Episodes (spoilers)

[Connemara]

So, who caught tonight's show? Maybe it's just me, but the prospect of an all-out Soprano/Lupertazzi war is seeming more and more possible. Phil is becoming a really big pain in Tony's ass, and with A.J. in the psych. ward and Meadow deciding to forgo medical school...how much more can the man take?

The aforementioned scenario seems a little too obvious, which is why I'm hesitant to accept it. Any thoughts on what's going to happen as the show winds down?

 

[Joffrey]

It seems like near death experiences affected Phil and Tony very differently. Tony feels he should take the second chance he has to appreciate the fruits of his labor more, while Phil feels he should quit "comprimising" and take all that he can get (as he says spending 20 years in the joint and then getting a second chance made him realise he only has one chance to take all that there is to grab).

Things are getting very interesting.

 

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Jodum5

It seems like near death experiences affected Phil and Tony very differently. Tony feels he should take the second chance he has to appreciate the fruits of his labor more, while Phil feels he should quit "comprimising" and take all that he can get (as he says spending 20 years in the joint and then getting a second chance made him realise he only has one chance to take all that there is to grab).

Things are getting very interesting.

I was a little confused as to what the "sanctioned" response would have been to Coco's behavior toward Meadow. Would it have been cool for Tony to just beat up Coco but not to **** up his whole mouth and jaw? What would Phil have done to Paulie or Sil in the same circumstance? Clearly there's a war brewing. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point. I'm wondering if the Arab guys are going to figure in the finale - or if Tony will end up the boss of NYC, or if Phil will kill him, or if Tony gets offed by Carmela or AJ, or even Janice. Was there a hint that Paulie is "playing both sides" in the clips from the next episode? I assumed they meant Paulie. I'll be very sorry to see the show go.

 

[Joffrey]

When they said playing both sides in the preview I thought they meant Phil's nephew (the guy attempting to brocker peace b/w the two). If Tony takes over NY he'll no doubt suffer a major personal loss (someone gets to Meadow, AJ somehow does himself in, etc.), I realy dont know what to expect.

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Jodum5

When they said playing both sides in the preview I thought they meant Phil's nephew (the guy attempting to brocker peace b/w the two). If Tony takes over NY he'll no doubt suffer a major personal loss (someone gets to Meadow, AJ somehow does himself in, etc.), I realy dont know what to expect.
Me neither. I don't know if Tony has the guns or ability to take over NYC...but I do think he can take out the Lupertazzis with ease. War seems pretty imminent at this point.

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Baron

- or if Tony will end up the boss of NYC, or if Phil will kill him, or if Tony gets offed by Carmela or AJ, or even Janice.


Carmela doesn't have the balls to kill Tony...I think she genuinely loves him.

As for AJ, he and Tony seem to be connecting more since the suicide attempt. I doubt he'll try anything.

Janice, as always, is a loose cannon...but what will killing Tony do? Bacala won't be made boss of the family, so she's not going to benefit much from it.

 

[JBZ]

I don't see Tony as having the muscle to take over New York. The New Yorkers have always looked down on the New Jersey family, often referring to them as a "glorified crew" or in similar terms. The implication has always been that the New Yorkers are much stronger. It would seem that the only way Tony could do this is with support within the New York organization. At least to this point, he does not have it.

 

[Connemara]

Hmmmm, I just read this theory on a Sopranos message board. Interesting.

"the money passed at the job site when Tony's guys said ;you dont have an envelope?' was filmed by the FBI and done this way to show the cash being passed."

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by JBZ

I don't see Tony as having the muscle to take over New York. The New Yorkers have always looked down on the New Jersey family, often referring to them as a "glorified crew" or in similar terms. The implication has always been that the New Yorkers are much stronger. It would seem that the only way Tony could do this is with support within the New York organization. At least to this point, he does not have it.

The only support he could get is probably from Little Carmine and whomever is loyal to him in the Lupertazzi family (which is more than Phil thinks, IMO...).

 

[Connemara]

I liked the fact that Yeats' "The Second Coming" played a big role in the episode.

 

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by Connemara

The only support he could get is probably from Little Carmine and whomever is loyal to him in the Lupertazzi family (which is more than Phil thinks, IMO...).

The writers have never really clarified who supports Little Carmine within his organization. Tony did appeal to him to become the boss of the New York family a few episodes ago, which implies that he must have some support (although this was before Phil Leotardo put his hat back in the ring). He was also involved in the power struggle for the New York organization (going up against Johnny Sack and Phil Leotardo) following the death of his father. If memory serves, he voluntarily backed down.

Everyone seems to look on Little Carmine as kind of a simpleton. Also, he's made it pretty clear that he has no interest in another power struggle. Perhaps Tony can get some support from him, but it's not clear whether any of the influential New Yorkers are with them.

Another possible ending is that the New York family will just steamroll the New Jersey family (though this could be very unsatisfactory for the fans, depending on how it was handled).

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by JBZ

The writers have never really clarified who supports Little Carmine within his organization. Tony did appeal to him to become the boss of the New York family a few episodes ago, which implies that he must have some support (although this was before Phil Leotardo put his hat back in the ring). He was also involved in the power struggle for the New York organization (going up against Johnny Sack and Phil Leotardo) following the death of his father. If memory serves, he voluntarily backed down. Everyone seems to look on Little Carmine as kind of a simpleton. Also, he's made it pretty clear that he has no interest in another power struggle. Perhaps Tony can get some support from him, but it's not clear whether any of the influential New Yorkers are with them. Another possible ending is that the New York family will just steamroll the New Jersey family (though this could be very unsatisfactory for the fans, depending on how it was handled).
Carmine is a really big idiot...David Chase hints at it all the time. Notice how Carmine messes up even simple grammar? He's meant to be a dumbass. After some thought...something's gonna happen to Meadow. I feel like she's getting colder (moving away from pediatrics to law, especially). A scenario I've envisioned is that the two FBI agents tell Tony that Leotardo and some other NY guys are planning a hit. Tony realizes he actually gives a damn about his family and agrees to snitch on the other guys in exchange for amnesty and the WPP. Meadow declines to enter witness protection because of her new boyfriend, and gets herself killed. Tony goes insane and is never the same. Won't happen, but it's dark enough.

 

[Augustus Medici]

I think war is imminent, but then again, Chase loves his anti-climax, so who knows? Either way, some major blood will be shed.

I also thought that the money-with-no-envelope indicated FBI observation. However, I don't think this is plausible because they clearly showed the asbestos rotting in the water and grass. If this was indeed an FBI sting, I don't think they'd really let the asbestos actually rot just to fool Tony's crew. And besides, Bobby's the one that took the money, not Tony. It would still be difficult to connect it all the way to T himself.

One of his kids dying is certainly a possibility, but I just don't see it because it would be way too cliche. I can see Tony losing nearly everything or some other catastrophic event, but something like losing a child? I don't feel it.

I don't think Paulie's smart enough to play both sides, but I do think Silvio is. If you notice, he's the one that was always encouraging Tony to gamble in Chasing It while the others were at least giving Tony disapproving looks. If there's a Judas in the bunch, my money's on Silvio.

And yes, New York is way too strong to be taken on by Tony in an all-out war. They've always made it clear that NY was much more powerful ("They got over 200 soldiers in his family"). However, Tony's always been smart enough to solve a problem in a unique way, which could succeed in bringing down Phil in the end.

RIP Johnny Sack

 

[briancl]

Originally Posted by Baron

I was a little confused as to what the "sanctioned" response would have been to Coco's behavior toward Meadow. Would it have been cool for Tony to just beat up Coco but not to **** up his whole mouth and jaw? What would Phil have done to Paulie or Sil in the same circumstance?

Think about how Johnny Sack handled the BS about the fat joke on his wife. He was livid, but Carmine defused it and eventually told him to suck it up. Johnny wanted to put a hit out on Ralphie, or do something to retaliate, but very little was ever done in retribution.

 

[Baron]

Originally Posted by briancl

Think about how Johnny Sack handled the BS about the fat joke on his wife. He was livid, but Carmine defused it and eventually told him to suck it up. Johnny wanted to put a hit out on Ralphie, or do something to retaliate, but very little was ever done in retribution.
A fat joke (2nd hand after the fact) about your obviously obese wife is a lot different than what Coco pulled with Meadow. That's next level ****. "You got some cream on your mouth - would you like me to add some of mine?" Then, "Tell your dad I said hello." Come on. If Ralphie had made a fat joke to the wife's face, that would almost be as bad. And Ralphie would have paid for it. Phil is a loose cannon - that kind of behavior is bad for business. He's bitter about Ralphie killing his brother and about his time in the can, but refusing to negotiate and shutting down projects out of spite won't solidify his hold on the crown. It hasn't been addressed at all in the show, but I'd imagine the underlings get restless if the money isn't flowing. Something has to come of the Arab connection. Then again, I've been waiting for that Russian that Paulie and Chris left in the woods to come back for 3 seasons now so who knows.