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Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by sipang, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Makeshift_Robot

    Makeshift_Robot Senior member

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    Borges is probably my favorite author period, both his more famous thought-experiment-style work and his simpler later stories. "Death and The Compass" and "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" are not either of them to be fucked with. I haven't read any Saramago, but he is on a list of authors to get to eventually.
     
  2. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    Stills from The Terence Davies Trilogy. This is one of my favorite movies. It's actually three short films that were bundled into a single movie, but they fit together thematically. Davies just released a new movie called Deep Blue Sea that I will be seeing as soon as I have a chance. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
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  3. Lionheart Biker

    Lionheart Biker Senior member

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    Maupassant FTW!! His short stories are some of the best I´ve read. Also big fan of Murakami. Currently reading the Wind Up Bird Chronicle. Reading his novels has made me want to visit japan 10000 times more than before knowing anything about him.
     
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  4. trafficjam

    trafficjam Senior member

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    if we discussin' Borges, would it be declasse to plug Grant Morrison's run on the Doom Patrol?
     
  5. snowmanxl

    snowmanxl Senior member

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    i walked by Dark Horse the other day :D. twas packed :(
     
  6. Ivwri

    Ivwri Senior member

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    Saramago is really good. Probably good to start with something short like The Tale of the Unknown Island which is definitely more in line with the stuff I have read from Borges. News of a Kidnapping is excellent non-fiction as well.


    I am still yet to read Grant's Doom Patrol. I guess I am a bit worried that all the hype for it will spoil it for me, having read a lot of his later stuff, that seeing a presumably 'rougher' execution of ideas used in books like The Filth, Flex Mentallo or Seaguy might not be worth it any more. Are there major Borges influences in the books?
     
  7. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]

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  8. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    I'm sorry, my friend, nothing against Joyce, but if you've read Palace of the White Skunks, by Reinaldo Arenas, you'd know that it contains the greatest sentences of all time. Below Arenas, I'd put William Vollmann (Rainbow Stories, probably), David Foster Wallace, for sure (Infinite Jest), Nabokov, whom you totally mentioned, Robert Coover (Pricksongs & Descants), mutha-fuckin' Lautreamont, of course (Maldoror), James fucking Agee (Let Us Now Praise Famous Men), Proust and Melville, which are just so obvious, but still -- plain old boring Edgar Allan Poe, of course, Charles Brockden Brown, if you squint real hard, Robert Burton like you wouldn't fucking believe, possibly Bruno Schulz (maybe more of a tie), Bonhumil Hrabal on a good day, Heinrich Boll at his crazyest best, probably a few more Frenchmen, the Faulkner of Light in August, maybe the uncorrected, shell-shocked version of Robert Graves' memoir, and then James Joyce.

    :slayer:


    SHAH EDIT:
    I'm curious to hear how you discovered Liam O'Flaherty. He's so...obscure-ish. I read the one about that one dude who gets drunk and walks around drunk. It was pretty Okay.

    GENERAL EDIT:
    oh shit how could I forget Flan O'Brien! the joyce admirer who surpassed joyce! (at least in fun)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
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  9. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    How is it that so many of your favorite English prose stylists wrote in other languages? Your number one pick is a translation! Is it the translator or Arenas you nominate? And Edgar Allen Poe, the sing-song man! The reason Poe is so popular in France (or was, anyway) was because they didn't have to read him in English. I don't doubt that Palace of the White Skunks had some great sentences, but I'm talking about consistent excellence throughout a work, not a few flashes in the dark.

    Also, I would include The Great Gatsby, which I think has flaws as a story, but the prose is, again, consistently excellent.

    Edit: forgot to address David Foster Wallace. He was undoubtedly a great writer, but I find his prose too sensationalist. Great prose, in my opinion, evokes sensations through the sounds of the words, their subtle plays on meaning and connotation, and of course through their arrangement. Joyce, to me, is like listening to complete music; DFW is like listening to just a very loud, very impressive drum solo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
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  10. trafficjam

    trafficjam Senior member

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    It's really good, and I in fact much prefer it to his work on, say, the Invisibles. It's my favorite from him. He pulls from a lot of places, but one story arc cribs very specifically from Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius.
     
  11. KingJulien

    KingJulien Senior member

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    As I said, DFW is one of my favorite authors but I wouldn't say he's a better writer than Joyce. It's just that the bit of Joyce I've read was, well, kinda miserable to read [​IMG]. Were you guys english majors?
     
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  12. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    I would also like to add that whenever I mention Joyce I'm talking specifically about Portrait and Dubliners. I actually can't stand Ulysses and Finnegan's. If I just wanted word games I would go play word games.

    one more edit: James Agee was definitely awesome. I also like Mary Ann Evans (aka George Eliot) a lot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  13. the shah

    the shah Senior member

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    noobizor i guess it might be obscure, i read it some 50 years ago when I was 14

    Another short story, The Most Dangerous Game, by R. Connell. Exciting !

    The chase for the dervish is what drew me to this. I laboured through it eventually.
    [​IMG]
    An evocative and beautifully written account of Michael Carroll's journey to Iran that took him through the heart of the country -- from the Taurus mountains to the Gulf of Oman, during the years following the CIA-led coup of 1953. He explores countless mosques, tombs and palaces, goes in pursuit of an elusive dervish and bargains for Silk Road jade and carpets. The narrative is adorned with colorful episodes from Iran's long history and with amusing anecdotes that complement and enrich Carroll's travels in a country that has since changed beyond all recognition.

    While one of the words in the title is the same, this could not be any more different from the previous listing. At times quite repulsive, it was an exhilarating tale. From what I gather, part of a pseudo-biographical series on Alexander.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  14. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    Haha. In case you haven't already seen it, here's NIN on Dance Party USA
     
  15. the shah

    the shah Senior member

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    [​IMG]


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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  16. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    Haha, no worries, man. You can append a (10) for attitude. I set out to fill KJ's rec request, but whenever I spot a chance for prose style rankings, OH SHIZ IT'S ON! :fence:

    Rankings are absurd, but I love them, if only for their tendency to tease out gems like these: Great prose, in my opinion, evokes sensations through the sounds of the words, their subtle plays on meaning and connotation, and of course through their arrangement. Joyce, to me, is like listening to complete music; DFW is like listening to just a very loud, very impressive drum solo.

    Also, this talk of consistency intrigues me. I can't quite picture it yet -- do you mean all these non-Joyces are like, failing at a grammatical level too often to be great? I find this doubly intriguing as Portrait is by design so inconsistent. Or at least shifting. (I remember it was your user name that actually alerted me to the exact point in the book that really made me sit up and take notice, prose-wise).

    ~

    Ahem. Gentlemen. :nodding:

    *throws smoke bomb*

    ** poof **

    * vanishes *
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
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  17. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    Hah, yeah, rankings definitely are absurd and totally subjective, and that's part of what makes comparing lists so much fun. I don't mean the non-Joyces are failing at a grammatical level. They're all great writers who excel at using grammar in both traditional and non-traditional ways. I just mean that sentence after sentence is balanced, beautiful, evocative. Even at the beginning of Portrait, when Joyce is still in kind of a baby talk mode, every word, and especially the sounds of the words, provokes my senses and emotions (like the sentence my handle is from, for instance). I get that from Faulkner at his best, too, even though he is a very different writer, and Nabokov, Fitzgerald in Gatsby, Melville in Moby Dick, Steinbeck at times in Grapes of Wrath.

    There are writers whose prose is just plain astonishing, even if it doesn't cause the same reaction in me. I feel that way about John Barth, DFW, Bellow, sometimes Cormac McCarthy, Faulkner when he's not at his best (even subpar Faulkner is great). They still write great prose, but in my mind the effect it has on me feels different. It's impressive, but just not as evocative in the same way, if that makes any sense. At this point though the writing is so good that what I'm talking about is probably just subjective and idiosyncratic, and other people may have the same reaction to writers who don't provoke me in the same way. But it's always fun to argue about!
     
  18. robinsongreen68

    robinsongreen68 Senior member

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    dunno how you can not see ulysses as THE great joyce novel. even though i completely agree with you about the beautiful resonant clarity of dubliners/portrait.

    also have no idea how noobizor places all those non-english writers above even early joyce.
    even nabokov once said something like 'compared with joyce's championship game my sentences are just patball'
     
  19. pickpackpockpuck

    pickpackpockpuck Senior member

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    Ulysses is amazing in many ways, but I find it too obsessed with its own convolution to actually read. Faulkner's Absalom, Absalom! is kinda the same way. It's like it's no longer a novel but a work of semiotics masquerading as a novel.
     
  20. BreezyBirch

    BreezyBirch Senior member

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