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Sons of Henrey - Shoes of timeless elegance - Official Affiliate Thread

Jmr928

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Probably add that CP and YSL made in Italy might be made in Romania finished in Italy or made in Italy by Chinese.
I tried to make it neutral because while I have and like both of them, even without putting a finger on the scale, Notch has a product coming in at about 1/3rd to 1/4 of the price with many of the same features and even some unique ones and no features that I see missing other than some gold lettering and brand awareness. At that point I'm much less concerned about any sort of markup or price transparency because it's no longer a cost equation but a quality comparison and he's got a winner there.
 

George Mason

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Excuse the very rough graphic design from my lunch break but aside from wanting to support Notch and SoH/Oct10 this tells enough of a story to get me to try them even though I already own the other two I compared to. View attachment 1423339
edit// Updated CP heel counter based on additional info
Exactly the "dare to compare" marketing concept I was referring to - very powerful!
 

BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes

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I do like the comparative charts. More so when the name of the competitor is revealed. Kudos to @Jmr928 for crafting it.

That being said, I am not sure I like it when the company (SoH for example) would produce the comparative chart. By displaying said chart, you acknowledge that this other product (the CP product for example) is the best there is (best due to popular opinion, sales volume, craftsmanship, etc).

Consequently, the lesser priced company becomes the smarter purchase due to price, whilst, indirectly, disparaging the "best" company as being overpriced. It's as if the lesser priced company is riding off the coat tails of the success of sample company without putting in all the work.

I love that Tom, specifically, and SoH (generally as a brand) do not resort to that. Tom displays his pictures. He provides the relevant information, and allows the consumer to make the purchase decision. The decision is not steered in a certain direction. It happens organically. Almost as if, the product is so good and Tom has so much confidence in it, that it sells itself. I forget the name of the car company that had that slogan but I liked it 😊.

All that considered, should a neutral blogger, SF poster, or interested footwear enthusiast put out the chart.. Well then that's fine in my book! 👍🏻
 
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George Mason

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I do like the comparative charts. More so when the name of the competitor is revealed. Kudos to @Jmr928 for crafting it.

That being said, I am not sure I like it when the company (SoH for example) would produce the comparative chart. By displaying said chart, you acknowledge that this other product (the CP product for example) is the best there is (best due to popular opinion, sales volume, craftsmanship, etc).

Consequently, the lesser priced company becomes the smarter purchase due to price, whilst, indirectly, disparaging the "best" company as being overpriced. It's as if the lesser priced company is riding off the coat tails of the success of sample company without putting in all the work.

I love that Tom, specifically, and SoH (generally as a brand) do not resort to that. Tom displays his pictures. He provides the relevant information, and allows the consumer to make the purchase decision. The decision is not steered in a certain direction. It happens organically. Almost as if, the product is so good and Tom has so much confidence in it, that it sells itself. I forget the name of the car company that had that slogan but I liked it 😊.

All that considered, should a neutral blogger, SF poster, or interested footwear enthusiast put out the chart.. Well then that's fine in my book! 👍🏻
Many good points!

That was an old Honda advertisement to which you referred...
 

Jmr928

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It's as if the lesser priced company is riding off the coat tails of the success of sample company without putting in all the work.
I think in some instances this can definitely be the case, particularly if it is a unique concept, but with something like a GAT or minimalist white sneaker I think it is less so because it has been done by so many people.

The power of the format is certainly apparent though which is why it is used by everyone from political campaigns for dog catcher to Google.
 

BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes

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I think in some instances this can definitely be the case, particularly if it is a unique concept, but with something like a GAT or minimalist white sneaker I think it is less so because it has been done by so many people.

The power of the format is certainly apparent though which is why it is used by everyone from political campaigns for dog catcher to Google.
I definitely can acknowledge the influence and effectiveness the comparative chart possess. I would say any and all political campaigns employ it. You definitely bring up a valid point with regards to the plethora of minimalist sneakers available, and a company having to differentiate itself from its competitors.

Saying that, I am still not in favor of the selling company displaying the chart, but that's just my opinion. I like the current approach that SoH utilizes.

With regards to comparisons though, I would find an influential blogger/vlogger useful, although admittedly I find most are quite annoying 🤣. They tend to compare the top 5 or 10 sneakers (or X product) within a price segment. I would presume, with their following, word on the superiority of one product over another would reach inquiring minds.

Social media users also love doing the X vs Y approach, so I believe, perhaps naively, that a good product will come to the forefront.
 
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clee1982

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I would prefer to look at side by side picture rather than this kind of "spec" compare... EG Dover is successful for its aesthetics reason
 

RickyTakhar

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Can someone make comparative chart of SoH George NST vs EG Dover vs F&S KEble lol...
As with anything you get the law of diminishing returns. Key differences between brands at the SOH price point and the upper echelon like EG/ F&S are the fine details, stitch density on the outsole, real leather heel stiffener, stacked leather heels, leather quality is first grade, finishing on the sole, more general hand finishing.

For me, I prefer the lower bracket for the majority of shoes, as they are better value IMO and I do not want to pay 3x for the above details. However for shoes aficionados those details are crucial.
 

Notch

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Thank you all for the great comments!! I believe the no’s have it, and I will take everyone’s opinion into consideration moving forward.

I would urge against price transparency to be honest. Business is business. Every product on the market has a mark up because this is simply how profits are made. I think where consumers would benefit from are from sourcing transparency. Continue to tell the story of the factory and where they source their materials. I think most of us appreciate your brand a lot due to the human element of it all. A personal touch goes along way.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I do plan to focus on sourcing transparency, I also prefer this personally as there is no room for lies or deceiving the customer. And I’ll always try to include the personal touch, even if the brand grows!

I would concur with this. While I appreciate the price transparency, I think no matter how transparent you may be, people will still question profits. Thus discretion is often the better part of valor IMO. But I do agree that being transparent about sourcing and the construction process is beneficial.
Got it, thank you for your opinion!

I agree. Tout materials, construction, sourcing et al. but highlighting costs/profits without providing the complete context (which would be very difficult to do) will be superfluous, confusing and probably harmful to your business.

Better to focus on the above plus a "dare to compare" marketing philosophy, illustrating how much more value SoH/Vekla provides relative to other brands.

Yes, the dare to compare philosophy is an important one. The video on Youtube from the guy cutting open the CP sneakers, is informative but only if you put it on mute. But it is a step in the right direction I think, only poorly executed.


As much as I like price transparency, I don't trust most consumers to understand cost structures and overhead. It's like what you said, it's very hard to compete on transparency against companies who aren't completely honest. Given the quality of material and ethical working standards, 185 euros is absolutely cheap for a sneaker. Consumers just don't truly understand the cost of making a consistently high quality product. I will say this Tom, the transparency approach will work if you're only trying to appeal to customers who both trust your transparency AND able to see the value in your product. I guess this falls under brand building.

I think first world consumers used to dirt cheap prices 15 years ago fail to understand how much wages have gone up in China or other places in Asia who are manufacturing hubs. Where manufacturing costs are still very low, there is almost always a brutal human cost to it as seen in parts of Bangladesh. With a globalized supply chain, labor cost increases in Asia drive up costs of goods even whether it is just the finishing or entire manfacturing being done in Europe. Part of the problem is that economic conditions for the West have been unchanged or deteriorated over the past 2 decades so consumers there aren't very tolerant of price increases, while East and Southeast Asia have prospered economically driving up costs.
Very interesting points you make! It amazes me, among my own friends, how they fail to understand that dirt cheap prices don’t benefit anyone. The human cost is insane, but people tend to overlook this.

@Notch , on price transparency, I think its better to stay away from it but just focus on how your product is superior to others. With revealing your profit, I think it'll be important to talk about the gross profit and then net profit to show how you're reinvesting money to grow the business as well as keep the business running (operation expenses etc.). Also, average consumer is not generally interested in knowing a lot of underlying details, they just want to buy a good pair of sneakers/shoe/product and move on. Just my 2 cents!
Yes, I’m afraid that I will loose the customer’s interest very quickly if I start talking about net profits vs gross profits, although it would have been the way to go.

I’m honestly a bit skeptical whether this will work with sufficient consumers (and trying to understand them is large part of what i do professionally). The thing is that most people don’t think much or very deeply about these kinds of things. They have no idea what the typical margins etc are. Typically the best predictor of human behavior is past behavior and I’d encourage you to try and find examples. I can recall that every time a new iPhone is released there’ll be some blog that takes it apart and says that the materials cost e.g. 190$ A lot of consumers respond very negatively to this type of information (ripoff!!) because they have no notion of the costs and don’t think. Here on SF you’ll encounter a much different reaction as people are more educated on this and put a lot more thought into their shoe or clothing purchases. So the question is: who do you want to sell to? The transparency will work great with the more educated crowd but is this enough of a market for your ambitions? Happy to chat more if useful
Very kind of you to offer your help! I’ll reach out through PM as I’m interested in what you do. Your name is Dutch (I believe), but I always wondered if English or Dutch is your native language? I definitely want to appeal to a larger crowd, become a bit more ‘mainstream’ brand but with very high quality basics such us the sneakers.

I concur. Be transparent about the supply chain and ethical sourcing and manufacturing. There is no need to be transparent about the cost. You're a business and you need to ensure that you set a price where you can make enough profit to be sustainable. As for consumers, consumers don't understand cost transparency. Consumers only care about the final cost. If they see your cost transparency and notice one or two things they think "can be cheaper," they'll shelve your product as "overpriced."
Thank you for your opinion! Well noted on the final cost aspect, I have the same feeling when looking at other brands. Some of them include costs that I believe to be inflated or too high, and then the credibility goes down a lot.

Hi Tom,

I would say no to price transparency.

As many others already pointed out, it would not appeal to a larger audience.
Most people do not think this thoroughly and won't put the effort to understand what is behind the numbers.
They would just think: "such margins!".
As a fellow Belgian, I can also emphasize that here in Belgium, you know that people are not keen to be happy for others and their financial success. So if other members from the UK and the USA advise against price transparency, it would be even worse here.

Price transparency is nice in a place like Styleforum where you are talking with geeks that can understand and relate to that.

In my opinion, you would be better off by marketing "better and sustainable products" as you have been doing so far.
You are not selling a price or a cost.

You're selling more than a product, you're selling an experience, craftsmanship and items that responds to actual customers needs that will lasts a lifetime.

Hope it helps =)
You are very, very correct in saying that Belgians are a difficult crowd. Very strange people in many aspects, and perhaps not the best country to start a business in. Yes, marketing a better and sustainable product will be smarter than going with cost transparency, especially for the local market.

Agree with everything the boys have said with regards to not being price transparent.

You have already disclosed the materials sourced and used on your products. That, in itself, is miles ahead of what almost every retailer of footwear is doing.

Those in the know, which speaks to what @WhyUEarly mentioned, understand and appreciate the material transparency. I believe most of us (on this forum or aware of materials) base our purchases directly on what goes into the product.

The uninitiated will see the price, first and foremost, and react accordingly. Additionally, those people tend to regularly make purchases on trending items or brand names. To that lot, regardless of how much you pull back the price curtain, purchase decision will not affect them.
Perhaps it is true to revealing the source of materials is innovative enough, especially for the local market. Time will tell!
I mean I can see transparency being an appeal due to the new generation (and sneaker definitely appeal to that crowd). Also I don't see transparency is against business interest unlike others, you're just disclosing how much you make.

The thing is it's hard to lump the fixed cost to individual item accurately, as well as spread investments into individual item, which are all "cost".

In all honesty, I think when people say they care about price transparency/cost they really just want to know how much "you personally take home", they take that margin as a proxy to emotional feeling on whether "you're making ridiculous money off them"

I personally don't care about price transparency because there is sufficient competition, if you can't bring value to the table, then it's hard to survive with so many new brands popping out everyday.
Definitely true, there are certain costs that are very hard to assign to a single product. Also, what with transaction costs (3.5% for Paypal for example).

Agree with everyone else on price transparency - in my mind you don’t need it to rationalize your costs to us - and the more general public looking is for a comparable or superior product to something else they’re interested in at a lower price or to find a deal, both of which your shoes provide.

Others have certainly tried the side by side comparison but I think it’s largely because it works. There’s a reason there are minimalist sneaker comparison videos out there with a half million views and someone cutting them in half to compare them with a million views and if I’m not mistaken I believe your sneakers are the lowest cost minimalist sneakers with a margom sole without sacrificing anything else.
Vekla sneakers the lowest ost minimalist sneakers with Margom soles? That could be true, I’m not sure. Perhaps I’d better look that up! The factory where I produce my sneakers never asked what my retail price will be. I can’t imagine what they would say if I told them…


I've never thought that internals of a price were the customer's business. Think about it, I suppose: Isn't that what that phrase literally means? That it's no one else's business, but yours?

That said, if it would give you an edge to go that route, then absolutely. I don't really see it myself, but then again, I guess I also don't really follow what you are saying about the competitors not playing fair. Is it starting to be standard practice, among some, to break the costs out? I think I saw it once, by Grant Stone perhaps, but I don't see it often. I always feel a little funny, too, when I do. I mean, I'd never ask a shopkeeper or business owner to see his tax returns, or ask him what he pays his staff. Just feels weird, and again, not my business.
Correct, gross margin shouldn’t be anyone’s business but my own. But a lot of other brands do it, and they seem to be successful in it. Perhaps to a different crowd though.

My family owns car dealerships and when I worked Summers as a student for my father I distinctly remember once a frustrated sales manager showing a customer factory invoice telling him look; this is what we paid to the factory and this is what our dealer hold back, and this is manufacturer advertising charge for each car etc.etc. Needless to say he did not close that buyer and just made him feel stupid. Customer just walked away not believing any of it.

I learned over a few Summers that people think they purchase products based on the price, but in reality they all buy products on emotions and irrational impulses.

I remember one salesman working for us, he was an Ethiopian guy who spoke very bad English with a heavy accent, but he was a magician at selling Americans of all ages cars at sticker or over. He was our best salesman 9 months out of 12. I am still not sure how he did that, but I always heard customers laughter from his office...
Great point! The price shouln’t be the reason why people buy or don’t buy the product. The feeling and emotional connection to the product and the story is worth highlighting.

Echoing all of the above - to me, price transparency principally appeals to those who buy on price / value.

And I would be wary about attracting that sort of customer base.

Plus, as said, there are plenty who use that strategy with less honest intentions - and you’ll not want to fight that much less win.
True, and when you call those brands out for being dishonest, you’re the ‘hater’ that can’t stand some competition.
 

Notch

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I am selling off some samples that have been piling up my office. 18 samples, sizes 7 to 10. I thought I'd post here first before I start taking product pictures for the website:

All of these are in very good condition, they are samples of course so might have a scuff or two, but they have never been worn. There is only one shoe that's lightly worn (nr. 14).

Just PM or email me at [email protected] if you're interested in any of them. Price is indicated excl. and incl. of VAT, shipping is extra. Paypal and Stripe are both fine, or I can set up a payment link through the website.

Screen Shot 2020-07-14 at 14.20.42.png
 

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