Sole Welting

[Nick V.]



Wasn't intending to imply judgement either way with the original post. Just offering a visual to accompany your prose description. I sensed you might be reluctant to do so to avoid being accused of some sort of inappropriate self-promotion, but I thought it germane to the conversation. Hope I didn't presume too much.

Not to me at least. Not an admission just a statement...nice finish!

 

[DWFII]



Wasn't intending to imply judgement either way with the original post. Just offering a visual to accompany your prose description. I sensed you might be reluctant to do so to avoid being accused of some sort of inappropriate self-promotion, but I thought it germane to the conversation. Hope I didn't presume too much.

Not at all. I appreciate it.

You've got good instincts. One of the half dozen or so here who I know are not kindly disposed towards me originally took great umbrage when I told him (in another thread) that I was a boot and shoemaker of 40 years. That simple statement of fact, that simple resume, set him off and he's never forgiven me for it.

And I never considered your remarks and posting as a judgment. I have to be critical of my own work. I have to be objective.

If I can't do that I'll get froze up in self-satisfied inertia. Any real craftsman faces that danger...or at least worries about it.

I tell my students that no matter how old you get or how good you get, you have to "look for three thing to improve upon in every pair. No less than three things lest you fall prey to complacency, no more than three at peril of false pride."

 

[Fishball]



All those things, I'm guessing. A little oxalic acid, glassing, burnishing, sanding with 4000 grit sandpaper, Wax. White gloves.

--

AFAIK, he didn't use any oxalic acid, and I am not sure the grit number he used, I also doubt he used gloves, other than that I think you are right!

 

[Fishball]



You hand stitch the new soles, using existing holes?

I like to know too!

 

[DWFII]



AFAIK, he didn't use any oxalic acid, and I am not sure the grit number he used, I also doubt he used gloves, other than that I think you are right!

If he didn't use oxalic, I'd be surprised (and interested)--all veg tan leather will get black stains from from the hammers when it is wet. But, of course, the key to that kind of finish is care and care and care--keeping it clean all the way from the mounting of the outsole to the final wax.

I don't use white gloves either...just a metaphor for keeping it clean.

 

[DWFII]



My simple answer (not just to you but to everyone) is this: you could at least try being polite to each other a bit more often. That doesn't mean agreement, let alone sycophancy, it doesn't even mean not being either dismissive or vehement when that's called for, it just means not being gratuitously insulting or demeaning to others.

I hope you realise that I have never been anything but respectful of your expertise, and will continue to be so. I'll also tell you now that I won't continue this discussion further because, firstly, I don't want to divert the thread any more, and secondly, if you disagree with me, I've read enough to know that I would be wasting my time trying to persuade you!

Oh, nice kilt BTW: I do hope that's you...

Every road runs in two directions.

Thanks. But you never mentioned what the sett was in your avatar...? Is that your family's clan tartan or what?

 

[FlyingMonkey]



Every road runs in two directions.

Thanks. But you never mentioned what the sett was in your avatar...? Is that your family's clan tartan or what?

It's actually the Fleet cloth from Dashing Tweeds, an innovative Scottish / London company. I have a rather superb 3-piece made from it by the Edinburgh tweed specialists, Walker Slater. My own clan tartan, well, my mother's clan tartan, is Munro.

 

[DWFII]



It's actually the Fleet cloth from Dashing Tweeds, an innovative Scottish / London company. I have a rather superb 3-piece made from it by the Edinburgh tweed specialists, Walker Slater. My own clan tartan, well, my mother's clan tartan, is Munro.

Oh yeah, I see it now (didn't know you could click on an avatar and see a larger version. Doh!). It's not really a tartan at all. But I bet the suit is good looking.

Thanks.

 

[RogerP]



Cheep out. But I'll give it to you if it makes you feel better about yourself.

The only thing that will make him feel better about himself is for all to sit worshipfullly at his feet, gazing up adoringly at his magnificence, gratefully accepting each pearl of wisdom cast down upon them, never ever questioning the Gospel of the One Voice.

Ain't gonna happen. More are willing now to speak up and correct some of the factually incorrect agenda-driven BS that has gone unchallenged in the past. Predictably, this has created a deep well of impotent rage in certain quarters - hence the repeated lashing out at all who dare to disagree.

I am grateful to all who contribute to the balance and accuracy of the discussion, even though such contributions invariably raise the wrath of those who can bear the sound of no voice but their own.

 

[dbhdnhdbh]

Not trying to start an argument. This really is what it appears to be, a question. Can someone explain this interest in perfectly smooth shiny soles? Aren't they dangerous to walk on until the get scuffed, at which point they no longer look like that?

I am pretty sure I have completely missed the point, that happens to me a lot. In this case, what is the appeal?

Thanks

 

[RogerP]

Quote:
Given that they will get scuffed pretty quickly (assuming one is walking on pavement) any danger will surely pass quickly. And the fact that they will scuff quickly renders moot (for me) any preference between a smooth / shiny finish and a logo. Though I kind of like the JR logo on the shoes I own that have it. That said. I have tried on shoes with highly buffed (waxed?) shiny outsoles that were so slippery on carpet it felt close to walking on ice. I'd be sure to get those worn on pavement right away. As for the appeal - I will let those who havea strong preference for the short-lived shine on outsoles explain what attraction it holds for them.

 

[DWFII]

So...new policy for me--in this thread.

If people want my opinion...want to ask me a question--

If someone wants the opinion of a shoe and bootmaker who has been doing this full time for 40+ years...

Who has actually done the work and gotten his hands dirty...

Who has been successful enough at it that he could support a wife and two children, own his own house and shop building (free and clear,) and is at this time debt free...

Who is not promoting or actively seeking profit nor benefit from his participation in this discussion...

If someone is looking for that kind of feedback, I will be happy to oblige provided they address their questions specifically to me (as so many others have already done and do). My username is DWFII but you can simply call me DW.

I will not answer open ended questions not addressed to anyone.

If you quote me, I will answer...if I feel like it...but be aware that there are no few people here who will nevertheless assume that if you didn't address your remarks to them or didn't quote them...you should have and it is surely all an unfortunate oversight. (Post #1051)

Those who feel compelled to answer in my stead or comment on an answer I have provided should be called on to provide substantiation and credentials. But I reserve the right to call it like I see it based on 40+ years of experience.

If you want someone else's opinion, address your questions to them. If you want shoe repair advice...I'm not your guy.

If you want want pretense, obsequious ego stroking, clueless speculation, or brief, short-attention-span, twitter feed answers, there are at least a half dozen people here who can better address your needs than I can.

Obviously some people here feel like they aren't getting enough attention...no one is asking their opinion...and this is the most democratic solution I can come up with.

More importantly, it is a blueprint for civility if people don't misuse it.

--

 

[LynahFaithful]



Not trying to start an argument. This really is what it appears to be, a question. Can someone explain this interest in perfectly smooth shiny soles? Aren't they dangerous to walk on until the get scuffed, at which point they no longer look like that?

I am pretty sure I have completely missed the point, that happens to me a lot. In this case, what is the appeal?

Thanks

From my perspective as the owner of two pairs of bespoke shoes, the appearance of the finished soles is about quality. I'm not the expert here and so if this isn't right, then I ask DW to clarify for us, but finishing, including the appearance of the sole, is one important aspect of bespoke shoemaking. DW's reaction to the picture of the shoes posted by fishball indicates to me the importance. In mafoofan's "bespeaking" thread, there was mention (not sure if it was Matt) of some not so good finish details on his new Cleverelys. Does that tell anything about the details that cannot be seen? Who knows? But to me, if the maker takes the time and attention to the detail of the soles, that he/she knows are going to be scuffed almost immediately, then that speaks, at least to me, that this maker cares. There is certainly the possibility of what I mentioned about the quality of unseen details but I would suspect if the maker takes that kind of care with the soles, then rest is going to be pretty good too. Just my opinion and YMMV.

 

[RogerP]

Quote:
I understand the aesthetic appeal - people like what they like - and there is a certain on-the-shelf uniformity to having a shiny sole to match the shiny upper. For me, the curiosity of the appeal rests not upon the fact that it is a largely unseen detail when the shoe is worn, but rather one which does not last. I suppose that if there hypothetically existed some extra magnificent glaze that gave the upper a unique shine - but evaporated within a week of the shoes being removed from the box and could never be re-applied - I would hold the same ambivalence. Now, if there is in fact some functional benefit to that type of sole finish - something that improves the quality of the sole in some articulable way - I'm all ears.

 

[LynahFaithful]

Functional benefit of shine on the soles? Probably none in the way you are thinking about it, but, the shine that was on the soles of my shoes (and the fiddleback waist) when I got them is certainly indicative of the quality that is built into them (and the skill of the maker). The shine was gone as soon as I wore them, but I know how hard I have worn them, and what they look like now and there is no mistaking the quality and value that I have received.