Sole Welting

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Quarantanove, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. dbhdnhdbh

    dbhdnhdbh Senior member

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    Frightening watching them work in the factory with dangerous-looking machines without eye, ear, or hand protection. Thank God for OSHA.
     


  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  3. kentyman

    kentyman Senior member

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    I had a question about some relatively cheap Antonio Maurizi shoes I bought and am deciding whether to keep. I realize this might not fit perfectly into the discussion regarding hand-welting, etc., but figured this would be the best place to ask. Please let me know if there's a better thread for questions like these.

    I was examining the stitching on the sole and noticed a couple stitches missing. Hopefully it shows in the photo:

    [​IMG]

    I am unsure if these are Blake or Blake/Rapid construction. Most shoes on antoniomaurizi.com state "Standard Blake construction", but when I emailed their customer support about these particular shoes from myhabit.com, I got the following responses:

    Quote: When I asked for clarification after finding their website said standard Blake, I got this:

    Quote: My questions are whether this is Blake or Blake/Rapid, and whether I should be concerned about the missing stitches in the picture.

    Thanks in advance for your insight.
     


  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    ^ You'd need to see a shot from above or slightly to the side from above to determine. Blake-Rapid will look like a welted shoe...with a "lip" like a welt. And often...but not always...like welted work, the stitches will be hidden in a channel.

    Blake will look more like cement construction except for the bottom where the stitches will be apparent.

    Generally speaking the missing stitches will not be a problem but if it is Blake it may be a chain stitch. In which case, it could just get progressively worse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014


  5. kentyman

    kentyman Senior member

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    Here are 3 clearer pictures. Notice that there are more stitches per inch on the top than the bottom:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     


  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I don't know. I would say Blake-Rapid but the fact that there are more stitches per inch on the top of the lip makes me suspicious. Suspicious that one or the other of those lines of stitching is for show only.

    If I am reading/re-reading your initial descriptions correctly, there are three layers. I suppose it is possible that the first layer is Blake attached and then it is sewn with a Rapid machine to the second layer. Which is what the description seems to say. That would be the standard Blake-Rapid.

    Why they felt they needed to throw a third layer on there without sewing it through from the top, if that's the way it was done...and how, or even why...is a puzzle.

    Again, I'm stumped.

    Still don't think the lost stitches pose much of a problem, however.

    Sorry I can't help more.

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014


  7. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    DW,
    Would be curious what you think of the construction of Mr. Meccariello's work. He mentions hand stiched and welted, which I'm sure you could make more sense of then I could.

    http://meccariello-calzoleria.tumblr.com/

    I like his shoes either way, just curious to put into practical terms the previous discussions on this thread.
     


  8. kentyman

    kentyman Senior member

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    That actually was very helpful. Thank you.
     


  9. thelonius

    thelonius Senior member

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    Kentyman, are you quite sure that there is a difference in stitches per inch between the two sides ? Isn't it that the sole bottom line is hidden slightly ?
     


  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    A handwelted shoe is a "completed" shoe. It can be walked on, with no filler, before the outsole is ever attached--no harm no foul. The size and shape will not be affected. The strength and permanence of the inseam will not be affected. It could be walked on for days, weeks, even months. Right up to the point where you wear a hole in the insole, the shoe will be fundamentally intact.

    No other commercial method of construction (with the possible exception of B-R) offers that level of reliability and quality.

    Beyond that, I don't comment on other maker's work. Although I will say that my own sensibilities go in the direction of refinement...rather than "in-your-face"...and the simple concept (taken from dance) that large movements look clumsy.

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014


  11. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It looks to me like a "bonwelt". A decorative, non functional welt, supplied "endless" (on 50 or so meter rolls) with the stitching (just for looks) frequently already in place.

    The Blake seam, going through insole and outer sole will also keep the bonwelt and all the other layers in place.

    The Blake stitching has not only a longer stitch-length, but is further away from the edge.
     


  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    That occurred to me ( couldn't remember what it was called). I've seen bonwelt listed in catalogues and, of course, you've mentioned it several times over the years. I've never used a bonwelt, never even seen it done. I'm not fond of counterfeit anything...so I'd defer to your expertise on this.

    But if that's the case, then the company is lying(?)--the shoe is not Blake-Rapid.

    And the loose stitches may present a possible, minor problem somewhere down the line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014


  13. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  14. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Not sure what you're asking but that's ^ a handwelted inseam. Maybe some would say that the spi is a little long, but IMO, it's OK (the minimal standard is 3spi on the outside of the inseam)--I'd be stitching a bit smaller but that's just me.

    [BTW, I'll comment on that kind of stuff all day long.:lol:]

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014


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