Soft vs Structured Tailoring

[Newcomer]

So you concur with me or just wanted more photos added?

I concur with you, and I would like to touch on it further. Alas, I did not get a chance to do so today. Perhaps, tomorrow.

 

[lordsuperb]

Most of those jackets fit really well-- clean lines, no folds or bunching cloth. Maybe that's why you're getting the impression of structure. I think "soft tailoring" becomes more apparent in movement, or in poor fit. There are certain details that have become associated with "soft tailoring" as well (drape, shoulder shapes, sleeve attachment, etc). Reliably or not, I associate a trim chest/roped shoulder/ticket pocket with "structured tailoring". Those details nudge my impression, anyway.

Milanese structure

 

[Bromley]

I've never seen any Dembech clothing in person, but I believe they make fairly structured jackets. My understanding of traditional Milanese tailoring is that jackets tend to have thin, but kind of firm interlinings (canvas, shoulder pads). Any Dembech clients able to discuss? @unbelragazzo ?

There are a lot of different types of canvas and shoulder pad materials out there, from thin, stiff linen to thick, loosely woven camel/goat hair. Many variables under the hood, and many interpretations of "soft".

 

[jonathanS]

I've never seen any Dembech clothing in person, but I believe they make fairly structured jackets. My understanding of traditional Milanese tailoring is that jackets tend to have thin, but kind of firm interlinings (canvas, shoulder pads). Any Dembech clients able to discuss? @unbelragazzo ?

There are a lot of different types of canvas and shoulder pad materials out there, from thin, stiff linen to thick, loosely woven camel/goat hair. Many variables under the hood, and many interpretations of "soft".

Milanese structure

View attachment 951659

I was under the impression that Dambech was a little softer than standard milanese found at A. Caraceni.

Maybe I am wrong - I haven't had an opportunity to commission from Musella Dambech yet but its on my list of to-dos. Milanese & Roman tailors are more structure relative to Florentine & Neapolitan tailors.

Obviously Neapolitan tailors are softer than Anderson & Sheppard or British Drape Soft.

 

[lordsuperb]

Another data point.....

 

[Despos]

Kind of a noob question here but could someone explain to me what soft tailoring refers to and how it relates to the shoulder? Curious to comprehend this sartorial concept.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Kind of a noob question here

LOL.

but could someone explain to me what soft tailoring refers to and how it relates to the shoulder? Curious to comprehend this sartorial concept.

I have also got the impression that there is a discernable lack of knowledge of basic concepts here and an unwillingness to admit it. You know a lot more than me and a lot more than most here, of course (joking aside)...

On the more general question, much as the CM side of SF likes to believe that it's all about "timeless style", it's as prone to fads and fashions as anywhere else. I recall posting pics of a suit made by Cad & the Dandy here, which is very much on the Savile Row structured style (nipped waist, straight lines to the shoulder, light padding for a little structure, generally a stiffer feeling to the look) and a few people just had no idea what they were looking at and there was some general incomprehension as to why I wouldn't favour "Italian" "unstructured", "soft" etc.

Generally people had no idea about shoulder expression or had some mistaken impression that shoulder expression related to padding (it doesn't, of course).

For people who do want to get to grips with the nuances of the shoulder, there is a really nice article on it here:

https://parisiangentleman.co.uk/academy/signals-of-a-handmade-suit-a-shoulder-that-sings/

 

[Bromley]

Kind of a noob question here but could someone explain to me what soft tailoring refers to and how it relates to the shoulder? Curious to comprehend this sartorial concept.

I hear your sarcasm-- it must be professionally frustrating to see this kind of vague discussion. But from a consumer perspective, I kind of think of ease of flexibility as being "soft". I have some jackets with thick shoulder pads that mask my very slopey shoulders, and I have some jackets with a shoulder that's nothing more than a continuation of a light chest canvas. When I'm wearing a jacket, the latter style gives me the impression of softness. The built up shoulders with firm, dense wadding give me the impression of stiffness and structure.

I'm eager to hear your input as to how these impressions relate to actual jacket construction.

 

[vida]

Look, the point of this thread is simply one of a stylistic preference. Technicalities aside, most people define soft tailoring by look and feel...as in, “does this jacket appear soft and relaxed”.

 

[Newcomer]

In this thread, on this forum, and elsewhere, I see a line drawn between "soft" and "structure." It may be helpful to stop propagating what appears to be - to me - a false dichotomy.

Why is the opposite of structured tailoring "soft" tailoring? Why isn't it unstructured tailoring? And what is "structured" tailoring? The tailoring that I linked to above, from Chris, has far less wadding, padding, etc., than pretty much any of my jackets, and yet - as @lordsuperb mentioned above - they "still give off a structured vibe." And more importantly, what the hell is soft tailoring? Why is "drape" lumped in with "soft" tailoring, when the "drape" cut, in building up the chest, adds structure?

I think I should clarify my initial post. I believe that a lot of people on this forum use shoulder expression as a proxy for "soft" and/or "structured" tailoring, and that the terms really do not take much else into consideration.

 

[breakaway01]

completely agree with what @Newcomer just wrote. The oppose of structured tailoring is not "soft" tailoring, whatever that is. There is a lot of imprecision being thrown around here so some of this is people talking around each other. Some misconceptions: it seems like some people equate structure with padding, which is not true; a jacket can be structured (canvas and other internal layers) with minimal or no padding. Furthermore, shoulder expression is not related to padding. They are different dimensions entirely.

 

[comrade]

I now own this jacket. It has virtually no padding except for a little around the sleeve-head:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0788/1281/products/RUBINACCI_LH_Solid_Tan_Wool-Linen_Blazer_Jacket_EU_54_US_44_Slim_1_large.jpg?v=1473236916

 

[Despos]

I’m firmly positioned in the soft structure camp. Soft construction where it benefits . Structure where needed. Both integrated for maximum comfort, durability and longevity.

 

[acapaca]

I’m firmly positioned in the soft structure camp. Soft construction where it benefits . Structure where needed. Both integrated for maximum comfort, durability and longevity.

I would love to see some pics as exemplars!

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

Anyone have any examples of a fully uncanvassed heavy tweed?