Soccer • Football • Voetbal • Futbol • Calcio 2011/2012

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Brian SD, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. El Argentino

    El Argentino Senior member

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    Oh - also, Arsené's digging his grave even deeper with this one. "I don't like the transfer window in January, so I'm not going to use it"
     


  2. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    Ramsey sucks. Can't believe Theo scored, and even less believable is that Swansea answered in 2 seconds :lol:

    ~ Wenger out ! ~
     


  3. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    +1

    Messi isn't the best because all you have to do is look at his international record:

    10/19 of Messi's goals for Argentina are in friendlies. That means he has scored 9 goals in 58 games that matter for Argentina. That's not indicative of the best player considering the talent around him in Argentina is considerable.

    Also Barca never struggles when Messi isn't playing, but they do when Iniesta is out
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012


  4. Reynard369

    Reynard369 Senior member

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    Arsenal really need Wilshere back. Ramsey, who was once such a promising player, is nothing compared to his English counterpart.
     


  5. Jabonator

    Jabonator Senior member

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    May I lol at you?
     


  6. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    Please do. And this discussion will never end so this is the last post I'm going to go into it. I watched Messi play ~15 times this spring in person, he's good and exciting to watch, but not the best in my opinion, so many easy goals and he has only proven himself in one league with the best team in the world. With that team, how do you not win the Pichichi last season? And who is scoring more this season? Messi's heading ability is limited as well and while he can take free kicks, when you compare his free kicks with Ronaldo there is no comparison. Ronaldo has everything and has proven it in two of the best leagues, with at times questionable supporting players. Yes Ronaldo dives and is sometimes a crybaby and Messi is much more likable player, but Ronaldo still trumps Messi. Ronaldo has more issues in the past, but at the moment, he's the best player in the world.
     


  7. fwiffo

    fwiffo Senior member

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    Too bad Henry didn't save the game with another wonder goal. It looks like they'll run the man ragged before he ends his loan.
     


  8. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Messi is elegant to watch and has incredible feet. The first time I saw him was at the U 19 World Cup where he was a sensation.

    I'm in the minority agreeing with you, but ya, Ronaldo is the more complete player. Consider the characteristics:

    - Both are brilliant on the ball, Messi a touch better
    -Ronaldo is clearly the better header of the ball
    -Ronaldo is clearly the better free kick taker
    -Both are about the same in terms of goal scoring, Messi has a better shot/attempt ratio but he gets more sitters
    -Neither is worth a shit defending
    -Neither has been a world beater internationally, but Ronaldo has been to a Euro final and led Portugal deeper into World Cups
    -Messi has had the better of the 2 head to head
    -Ronaldo is stronger and taller

    Here are some intangibles. Ronaldo has owned 3 separate clubs: Sporting Lisbon, Man United and now Real Madrid. He's been the best player on the team everywhere he has gone. He's been prolific in front of goal everywhere he has played.

    Messi on the other hand has played for the best team in the world for most of his career. He gets a ton of sitters and gets immense help from the quality around him. He's part of an institution. I think the point above is accurate. He's been very average for Argentina.

    If it wasnt for Barcelona he would not have won it 3 years running. And the year Ronaldo won he was devastating for Man U.

    Ronaldo would be much more appreciated if he had a different persona. If I had to have either on my side, I would take him over Messi even though Messi is more pleasing on the eye.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012


  9. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    Who delivers in big games? The biggest games, of course. Where was CR in the final vs Barca several years back , compared to what Messi did including a header ? Where was CR in the Classicos -- one header in the mickey mouse cup winner in extra time compared to how many stellar performances by the little guy ? You can look up the two clips, one of Messi going past 5-6 Madrid players to score alone, another where Ronaldo does track back but is helpless and watches in amazement as Messi chips Casillas. Countless big games in which CR did nothing ...

    Speaking of big games, Il Principe puts Inter ahead just as Milan were trying to get control of the game. Ibra, of course, pulls another Ronaldo and goes missing in the big game :sarcasm:
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012


  10. Jabonator

    Jabonator Senior member

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    Seriously, choke Bronaldo? He scores a tons of goals against the small teams, that's how he pads his stats. But how has he been in his what, around 10 matches against Barca? Invisible. One of the worst players on the pitch.
     


  11. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    Are you even serious right now? :facepalm: Messi scores hat tricks in all the Copa games so he can get to 50 goals.

    And shah, as I stated, at the moment, Ronaldo is the best.
     


  12. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    this moment will end when the next big game comes around for madrid, which is this wednesday I guess ?

    anyway, i thought this was all sparked by messi's selection for the award, which isn't a reflection of any given moment but one spanning the past calendar year. but i really don't care for such discussions since nobody is ever convinced otherwise

    instead, we can look at the voting record :::

    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/classic/awards/01/36/25/40/ballondor_award_men_player_finalx.pdf

    It's a bit more inclusive now that captains, coaches, and the press are all involved -- peers, mentors/tacticians, and those who analyse/report

    ------------------------------------

    Diego Milito is a better big game player than Ibracadabra and Robinho

    it makes me think Arsenal may have a chance over the two legs :lol:
     


  13. El Argentino

    El Argentino Senior member

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    Betis pulls it back level against Barça. Dale!
     


  14. Jabonator

    Jabonator Senior member

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    But he also scores and delivers in other ways in the big games, for example, El Clasicos. He's a big game player, which Ronaldo is not. That has always been one of the biggest things to separate the great from the greatest in the comparisons.
     


  15. Sir Humphrey Appleby

    Sir Humphrey Appleby Senior member

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    What about not thinking the game is won before its even started because you are a better team than the other side and having the professionalism to put in a performance in those games?
     


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