Sneakers With Tailoring: Yes, No, Maybe?

[Phileas Fogg]

 

[dieworkwear]

Is this your new autumn look, Dieworkwear?

Cause it seems you like straw men.

I am not saying women are a subset of men (and you know this, but you're run out of logical responses). I am saying this:

Prior to puberty (childhood), there is not much difference, physically, between boys and girls besides the sex organs and such.
Neotenous features track childhood.
Feminine features track neotenous features.
Masculine features do not track neotenous features.
Therefore, women more closely approximate pre-adult boys.

Even if you have a woman displaying prominent secondary sexual characteristics (as in curvaceous women), the neotenous elements of the feminine are usually still prominent, allowing the style to be "cute".

I am not "agreeing" with pederasts. I am pointing out the pederastic elements expressive in that model's style. She is clearly attempting to affect the look of an adolescent boy.

Very famous example of pederast elements in art. Note how a boy's figure is (accurately) depicted as being more closely feminine.

Or how about this:

Why is Peter Pan played often by a woman?

Why is Bart Simpson voiced by a woman?

Again, what does this have to do with why women can look good in menswear? According to you, busty women with full hips don't look like children. Yet, many women with such figures look good in menswear-inspired items.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I love how a bunch of dudes are now discussing women’s fashion.

 

[JFWR]

Again, what does this have to do with why women can look good in menswear? According to you, busty women with full hips don't look like children. Yet, many women with such figures look good in menswear-inspired items.

I've already given you the answer to this, but I will state this again:

Feminine features track neoteny. Even when women have sexual dimorphic features, the feminine retains neotenous elements.

Facial shape
Smaller bodies
Softer voices
Very little bone structural changes except the widening of the hips/pelvis.
Even things like eyelash length. (Have you ever noticed how children tend to have really long eye lashes?)

Thus even if a woman has a more obviously feminine build, she still has the neotenous features to look cute. Cute is something that almost exclusively belongs to women as an aesthetic. Why? Because they are more child-like (neotenous) in appearance.

 

[dieworkwear]

I've already given you the answer to this, but I will state this again:

Feminine features track neoteny. Even when women have sexual dimorphic features, the feminine retains neotenous elements.

Facial shape
Smaller bodies
Softer voices
Very little bone structural changes except the widening of the hips/pelvis.
Even things like eyelash length. (Have you ever noticed how children tend to have really long eye lashes?)

Thus even if a woman has a more obviously feminine build, she still has the neotenous features to look cute. Cute is something that almost exclusively belongs to women as an aesthetic. Why? Because they are more child-like (neotenous) in appearance.

Have no idea how to respond. I don't think of femininity as being cute, childlike, or little boyish. That seems bizarre.

 

[jack webb]

I love how a bunch of dudes are now discussing women’s fashion.

Better discussing than wearing.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Better discussing than wearing.

you make a good point my friend.

 

[物の哀れ]

A decade ago, sharing a picture of a women wearing menswear would have elicited some thoughtful discussion and some unfortunate wolf-whistling.

Now it elicits… male fragility?

 

[JFWR]

Have no idea how to respond. I don't think of femininity as being cute, childlike, or little boyish. That seems bizarre.

Feminine women in masculine garb frequently can pull it off as they look cute. They don't look exactly masculine. Cuteness is closely related to neoteny - childish features retained into adulthood. Cuteness is correlated with childishness.

I am not saying cute = little boyish. I am saying that cute = childish. As a result of being childish, that -does- approximate the sexual lack of distinctions amongst boys and girls, and that allows for women to affect an adolescent boy look. Men, meanwhile, are on the whole, incapable of looking cute because of their LACK of neotenous features. This is part of the reason that men can't pull off feminine looks nearly as well.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Quick! Someone call Camille Paglia.

 

[dieworkwear]

Feminine women in masculine garb frequently can pull it off as they look cute. They don't look exactly masculine. Cuteness is closely related to neoteny - childish features retained into adulthood. Cuteness is correlated with childishness.

I just don't think of "cute" as being the dominant dimension on which to judge women's style.

But when I think about your posts in the "How I Would Like a Woman To Dress" thread ... it makes sense that you hold this view. It's just not how I think of the wide world of womenswear. There are lots of women's fashion that I enjoy that have nothing to do with looking "cute." But I imagine you probably don't like those styles.

I'm more into feminine fashion on women.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I just don't think of "cute" as being the dominant dimension on which to judge women's style.

This explains why I still fantasize about her:

 

[yorkshire pud]

I don't think any of this has to do with why women can look good in menswear. I think it's mostly about gender anxiety among men. Especially in today's age, where some men are increasingly anxious about gender identification as some people are questioning those norms. So they seek out narrower and more clearly defined parameters for how to express masculinity. It's similar to why we have "man laundry detergents" and other gendered things that don't need to be gendered.

The reason why women can wear masculine things is because fashion has been historically coded as a feminine interest. Men are supposed to live a life of the mind; vanity is for women. Even if all genders participate in fashion, the interest itself is coded as feminine. And so, women are given freer reign in fashion.

Women of all shapes, sizes, and body types can wear masculine clothing and look good in it. Putting the caveat that I don't agree with pederasts (can't believe I have to type this), I don't think that women with smaller breasts are the only people who can wear masculine fashion (and I don't agree that femininity is defined by your breast size). It's just that thinner women are often used as models, so we'll often find those photos online. But when you go out into society, you see all types of women wearing masculine things, and many of them look good. You have women who are very busty who wear masculine items; women are are not busty who wear masculine items. It's not about "who looks like a 13 year old boy." And, again, with the caveat that gender expression in clothing changes over time -- pants were once considered a masculine item.

You just don't see this happening much in menswear because clothing is social. What we consider "good" is often socially defined. And historically, the band in which menswear operates is much narrower. But that doesn't mean that men haven't worn fem clothing and looked good in it. Or that you can't apply to same logic in womenswear as you can in menswear. Lots of guys look even more masculine in fem-ish items.

The guys who look best in Belgian shoes are often very masculine looking because you see a contrast between the femininity of their shoes and the masculinity of their physical appearance. There's also something very "macho" about a guy who's so confident in his masculinity that he's OK with wearing a slightly more feminine item.


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Nobody ever looked good in Leopardskin, except maybe Leopards who wear it specifically not to be seen ?

 

[JFWR]

I just don't think of "cute" as being the dominant dimension on which to judge women's style.

But when I think about your posts in the "How I Would Like a Woman To Dress" thread ... it makes sense that you hold this view. It's just not how I think of the wide world of womenswear. There are lots of women's fashion that I enjoy that have nothing to do with looking "cute." But I imagine you probably don't like those styles.

You either have a really good memory or you really like me. That thread was like, six months ago.

I am not saying that all women's wear looks cute. But I am saying that if a woman is going to wear men's clothing, it's going to have some element of cute, or it will end up looking butch, which is decidedly not an attractive look.

Some people choose butch specifically for lifestyle and orientational reasons. I get that. But that is explicitly to emphasize the masculine to the point of annihilating the feminine, as expressive of a sort of sexual and gender identity issue.

But yes, I like cute girls.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

A decade ago, sharing a picture of a women wearing menswear would have elicited some thoughtful discussion and some unfortunate wolf-whistling.

Now it elicits… male fragility?

speak for yourself pal. I’m looking studly right now chilling in my chair with an intense look and wearing my leopard print Belgian loafers.

*******! I’m hungry. Going to kill something and eat it. Peace out.