Sneakers With Tailoring: Yes, No, Maybe?

[JFWR]

I feel like you keep talking about the intrinsic quality of a shoe whereas I'm talking about the extrinsic quality. Yes, Allen Edmonds still produces some tasteful, well-made shoes. I wish men wouldn't wear them in incoherent ways.

I feel like this disconnect happens often on the shoe threads. People keep talking about the intrinsic quality of a shoe. How well it's made, whether the design is tasteful, whether it's produced in the US or UK, etc. But you can also have a tasteful shoe that's worn poorly. I'm talking about how many people here only focus on the intrinsic quality of a shoe.

To give examples. I'm into fountain pens and sometimes participate in fountain pen communities. There are some people who are super into fountain pens and get really excited about different filling systems, nibs, barrel materials, methods of manufacturer, etc. But they don't write very well because ... they're not actually into penmanship. They are just into fountain pens -- the buying and collecting thereof.

IMO, if you're into fountain pens, you should practice writing because the point of having fountain pens is presumably the experience of writing and the improvement of penmanship. The fountain pen should relate to something larger than itself. This is not always the case for people who are into fountain pens -- they think just about the object and the object then creates an online collecting community. IMO, the same has happened with watches, fragrances, and shoes.

Okay. I understand your intrinsinic/extrinsic thing. Why I brought up quality was distinguishing AE from its lower-tier competitors. Lower-tier brands are becoming, effectively, sneaker companies. At this point, I don't recognize them being "dress shoe" companies at all: there isn't a "dress shoe" on that list. They're adding in like, actual Adidas soles on "dress shoes", now. It looks ******* absurd. It looks, frankly, space alien - it looks like something you'd see in b-scifi movies from the 50s.

I understand the charge of "incoherence" with outfits and the like, though again, they are moving after a demographic that will be the people who are going to be buying "Dress shoes" for the rest of their lives.

Also, Instagram is basically for people 20-30 years old. Maybe I shouldn't point out that I was hitting on an 18 year old last night, but when I was flirting with this girl she was shocked to see I had an instagram notification on my phone because I am in my 30s.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

Wingtips would have been incoherent as dress shoes at one time, but the boundary evaporated (I’m sure someone will now claim wingtips can’t be dress shoes now, but decades of old guys wearing them with suits in USA disagree)

it’s the same **** today. In 20 yrs, people will think it’s bizarre that anyone would claim any brown or black shoe is not a dress shoe

 

[AgentGary]

Also, Instagram is basically for people 20-30 years old. Maybe I shouldn't point out that I was hitting on an 18 year old last night, but when I was flirting with this young male, he was shocked to see I had an instagram notification on my phone because I am in my 30s.

 

[acapaca]

I said that I don't think of femininity as being cute and childlike. I recognize that some do.

What you said was you thought the notion was bizarre. Bizarre. Now, to most people bizarre doesn't just mean 'not my cup of tea'. It would mean, in this case, something more along the lines of 'Wow. What other fetishes do you have?'

 

[dieworkwear]

Also, Instagram is basically for people 20-30 years old. Maybe I shouldn't point out that I was hitting on an 18 year old last night, but when I was flirting with this girl she was shocked to see I had an instagram notification on my phone because I am in my 30s.

What you said was you thought the notion was bizarre. Bizarre. Now, to most people bizarre doesn't just mean 'not my cup of tea'. It would mean, in this case, something more along the lines of 'Wow. What other fetishes do you have?'

Imagine that! Someone with this view is in his 30s and hits on 18 year old girls! Who could have predicted such a thing?!?

 

[AgentGary]

View attachment 1675176




Imagine that! Someone with this view is in his 30s and hits on 18 year old boys!

girls = young adolescent boys

 

[JFWR]

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Imagine that! Someone with this view is in his 30s and hits on 18 year old girls! Who could have predicted such a thing?!?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why wouldn't you go for the prettiest girl to flirt with? Like, I don't know about you, but when it comes to flirtation, I prefer to flirt with hotties rather than notties.

I don't exclusively hit on 18 year olds, but when I do, I prefer Dos Esquis.

 

[ValidusLA]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why wouldn't you go for the prettiest girl to flirt with? Like, I don't know about you, but when it comes to flirtation, I prefer to flirt with hotties rather than notties.

I don't exclusively hit on 18 year olds, but when I do, I prefer Dos Esquis.

I'm 35.

If my wife left me or died heaven forbid, by virtue of money and a full head of hair I could probably "get" an 18 year old.

But why would you want to? 18 year olds are annoying as hell.

 

[H. E. Pennypacker]

i think alden’s main customer in the US is a senior citizen who worked in Washington DC. Not that there’s anything wrong with that— it just seems that this was a default look of a guy of a certain age

I do think their penny loafers, tassels and suede chukkas can be more easily worn by younger guys

100% with you. In regard to your second point, I'm a young guy myself and wear and buy Aldens regularly, the LHS #8 is my most worn loafer.

That's an interesting observation. I don't view either thread very often, usually just when a post there is reported. I wonder if the lack of Alden thread regulars in threads like this (relative to AE ones) is due at least in part to the Alden thread being in SWD and the AE one in CM, along with these threads.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that they necessarily do either. But I wonder if there's some probability of it. I like AE a lot and recommend their shoes all the time, partly because they're the easiest GYW shoe to find in the US and they're relatively inexpensive.

It can be but a lot of the regulars there don't really even participate in the other shoe forums or have a very limited range.

There definitely is, imo, but I think it largely comes down to Alden having this unique allure within our bubble. I fell for it, I always viewed the 986 (LHS #8 with antique welt) as frumpish but I kept seeing all these men wearing them and calling it a staple of Alden's catalog and gave in. I purchased a pair wore them around the house with different outfits and thought not bad, I might keep them. By my 3rd wearing, I was fully convinced and purchase another pair in brown suede.

 

[JFWR]

I'm 35.

If my wife left me or died heaven forbid, by virtue of money and a full head of hair I could probably "get" an 18 year old.

But why would you want to? 18 year olds are annoying as hell.

Because they're super beautiful?

You can either get an older girl, who is equally as annoying but perhaps knows the same music as you do, or you can get a younger one who is, at least, more beautiful for the time being.

Or less sarcastically: 18 year olds are charming, 35 year olds are charming, 55 year olds are charming, it depends on the girl. If I had to say, though, I prefer girls younger than me. I usually date girls between 5-12 years younger than me.

 

[radicaldog]

If cute and youthful as attractive female traits are bizarre to you, then I'm just not sure you have a great grasp on how the majority of the world works. And, that aligns with how you also don't seem to have a great grasp of how and why others wear CM in the way they do

This seems wide of the mark. We are having a normative discussion about what constitutes good ways to dress. Whereas you’re talking about how the world works, how most people dress, etc. If you want to make the normal into the normative, don’t spend time on this forum. Just copy the modal guy on the street.

 

[dieworkwear]

The 18 year old from last night:

 

[ValidusLA]

Because they're super beautiful?

You can either get an older girl, who is equally as annoying but perhaps knows the same music as you do, or you can get a younger one who is, at least, more beautiful for the time being.

Or less sarcastically: 18 year olds are charming, 35 year olds are charming, 55 year olds are charming, it depends on the girl. If I had to say, though, I prefer girls younger than me. I usually date girls between 5-12 years younger than me.

I would literally rather move to Kyoto and mediate and do koans for the rest of my life than have a conversation with a teenager for the purposes of being with someone "super beautiful."

 

[JFWR]

I would literally rather move to Kyoto and mediate and do koans for the rest of my life than have a conversation with a teenager for the purposes of being with someone "super beautiful."

I converse intelligently for a living. I can have some more frivolous entertainment in my romantic life.

 

[acapaca]

This seems wide off the mark. We are having a normative discussion about what constitutes good ways to dress. Whereas you’re talking about how the world works, how most people dress, etc. If you want to make the normal into the normative, don’t spend time on this forum. Just copy the modal guy on the street.

I'm talking about observations that are inherent parts of the argument. There are claims that amount to something like: 'This isn't a good way to dress because nobody who dresses well does it'. Would you agree that this is a primary pillar of the argument? I mean, we see picture after picture of 'good examples' and 'bad examples'.

My contention is that the observations here are sometimes wildly wrong. Or at the very least, that they don't exist outside of some very narrow niche. I think you might agree that a normative discussion that only applies to very limited scenarios is itself of limited value?

If it's limited value we're after here, as in some sort of esoteric academic exercise, then fine. But that's not what I perceive as the primary usefulness of this forum.