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Slam Magazine's 50 Best NBA Players

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by jpeirpont, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    ^was a real asshole but a great player.
     
  2. Vintage Gent

    Vintage Gent Senior member

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    I've seen everyone of them play live except Dolph Schayes!

    You saw Mikan play?
     
  3. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Kwiteboy is hilarious. I would call him ignorant, but remember that his generation has had self-esteem drilled into their heads relentlessly. Results are unimportant, only potential. So, yeah. LBJ is the greatest from that perspective.

    Wilt was, by far, the most dominant player ever. If he played now, he wouldn't be as dominant, but he would still be the best player in the league. He would be better than Shaq was in his prime.

    He was Shaq's size, but much, much more athletic (was on his college track team). Like Shaq, there were few players as big as him - Gilmore, Russell, Reed were all big, but not as big.

    His conditioning was amazing, especially considering that this was in the era before personal trainers, team dieticians, etc. His second year in the league he averaged over 48 minutes per game, (and averaged over 50 pts, 25 rebounds per game).

    He's the only center to ever lead the league in assists.

    He transformed the game of basketball.


    I think people forget that the object of the game is to win, not to compile gaudy statistics. Wilt is an all time great for sure, but he still only managed to win two titles despite playing in a league in which he physically outmatched his opponents to a greater degree than perhaps any player in the history of the league. I'm not old enough to have seen him play, but I have to assume from his record that he was less of a player than Russell, Kareem or Shaq.
     
  4. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    i've watched enough tape to know this wasn't the case. wilt became an epic passer late in his career.

    his pussy numbers alone count for something.


    I think people forget that the object of the game is to win, not to compile gaudy statistics. Wilt is an all time great for sure, but he still only managed to win two titles despite playing in a league in which he physically outmatched his opponents to a greater degree than perhaps any player in the history of the league. I'm not old enough to have seen him play, but I have to assume from his record that he was less of a player than Russell, Kareem or Shaq.
     
  5. StephenHero

    StephenHero Senior member

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    Best in their sport by the largest margin.

    1. Gretzky
    2. Ali
    3. Pele
     
  6. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Best in their sport by the largest margin.
    2. Ali There is no consensus that Ali was the best ever. None. Not the best fighter, not the best heavyweight, let alone "largest margin."
     
  7. StephenHero

    StephenHero Senior member

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    Who was better? Joe Louis or Tyson. Those are the only two I could honestly say were close.
     
  8. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    +1. if i never hear another word about his greatness in all endeavors, it will be too soon.


    2. Ali


    There is no consensus that Ali was the best ever. None. Not the best fighter, not the best heavyweight, let alone "largest margin."
     
  9. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Who was better? Joe Louis or Tyson. Those are the only two I could honestly say were close.

    Here's one pretty methodical breakdown. http://coxscorner.tripod.com/boxchart1.html If you read it you'll see that Ali is tied for first among heavyweights with Louis. My point isn't that Ali sucked, it's that there's no consensus that he's the best heavyweight ever by a large margin. He's in the conversation.
     
  10. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan Senior member

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    Did I say potential? I said ability. Using PER, the most comprehensive metric of an individual player's team-independent value, LeBron's 2008-09 season was the best non-MJ individual season since the NBA started tracking individual turnovers in 1977. As the 2008-09 season is now over, I think we can start calling it a result, as results are things that have already happened, not things that have the potential to happen, but double-check that definition for me, as I'm ignorant.

    Do you see how you prove my point here? He had one great season.
     
  11. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan Senior member

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    He has more ability than Shaq but I think Shaq (in his prime) would punish Wilt in the paint. It would be a great match up to see but NBA players today are more athletic than being fundamentally sound and that plays a role, especially in the defensive end. I can' see him playing 48 minutes of offense and defense against Shaq or Dwight. No doubt he was a great player, but in his prime, I do not think he would dominate or even be the best player in the league today with Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Garnett, Howard, etc...

    Why would Shaq dominate him? Wilt was the same height, weighed twenty pounds less (but was all muscle and eventually played at 300), had better hops (won the Big 12 high jump championship), and as his passing shows, had a much better all around game.
     
  12. StephenHero

    StephenHero Senior member

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    Anyone saying Shaq is in the same stratosphere as Wilt is Whitney'ed.
     
  13. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Why would Shaq dominate him? Wilt was the same height, weighed twenty pounds less (but was all muscle and eventually played at 300), had better hops (won the Big 12 high jump championship), and as his passing shows, had a much better all around game.

    Shaq was also a great passer, and I bet he weighs more than his listed weight. They're both great players. I believe Shaq did a better job at using his size to dominate his opponents. Wilt admitted that himself. He said he wished he had played like Shaq did - just overpowering guys and going to the hoop. Instead he relied a lot on fall away jumpers, which he says was because he was trying to prove that he wasn't one dimensional. They played in very different eras, but Shaq was an unstoppable post player, great passer, great defender. Shaq winning 4 rings in this era is way more impressive than Wilt winning 2 in his.
     
  14. StephenHero

    StephenHero Senior member

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    Remember when Shaq won those titles without a first team all NBA teammate? Yeah, me neither.
     
  15. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Why would Shaq dominate him? Wilt was the same height, weighed twenty pounds less (but was all muscle and eventually played at 300), had better hops (won the Big 12 high jump championship), and as his passing shows, had a much better all around game.

    For the simple fact that Shaq is stronger and I just don't think Wilt ever encountered anyone like him in his whole career. Even with Shaqs horrible ft%, put him in Wilts era and he will probably be averaging 50/30 a game as well. Wilt is more refined in all aspects of the game as Shaq but if you really compare how much stronger players are today compared to Wilt's era, it is no question Shaq battled against stronger players like Duncan, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Howard (I guess this one is a stretch but it counts) etc.. Shaq is probably top 5 center of all time and even if Wilt is first, even that is debatable, Shaq isn't too far away. I even doubt Wilt had to work as hard to score or even got tired as much (even playing 48 minutes a game) as he would if he played in the past decades NBA.

    Again, Wilt is great, top 3 between him, Bill Russell and Jabbar and Shaq cannot match his stats but Shaq can take him. Think about it this way, Wilt changed the game so centers won't have the advantage, so he had time to play in a less restrictive rules while Shaq has played in the restrictive version his whole career and broke boundaries.
     
  16. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    I think people forget that the object of the game is to win, not to compile gaudy statistics. Wilt is an all time great for sure, but he still only managed to win two titles despite playing in a league in which he physically outmatched his opponents to a greater degree than perhaps any player in the history of the league. I'm not old enough to have seen him play, but I have to assume from his record that he was less of a player than Russell, Kareem or Shaq.

    In Wilt's defense, his peak years were with the Philly/SF Warriors, surrounded by respectable teammates (Greer, Cunningham etc.), but doesn't compare well at all with the absolutely stacked Celtics dynasty, which future HoFers include: Russell, Cousy, Tom Heinsohn, Havlicek, Sharman, Frank Ramsey, KC Jones, Sam Jones, and of course, Auerbach.
     
  17. Texasmade

    Texasmade Senior member

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    Who was better? Joe Louis or Tyson. Those are the only two I could honestly say were close.

    Ali considered Sugar Ray Robinson the best boxer of all time regardless of weight divisions.
     
  18. kwiteaboy

    kwiteaboy Senior member

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    Do you see how you prove my point here? He had one great season.
    He has had one all-time great season and the third-highest career PER of any player in NBA or ABA history, behind MJ and Shaq and ahead of David Robinson and Wilt. He could retire right now and he's still been more valuable than almost any player in pro basketball history.
     
  19. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    He has had one all-time great season and the third-highest career PER of any player in NBA or ABA history, behind MJ and Shaq and ahead of David Robinson and Wilt. He could retire right now and he's still been more valuable than almost any player in pro basketball history.

    LOL. PER fanboyness at display again. Tell me one more time: do people play basketball so that their team can win or do they play solely to rack up gaudy stats?

    Any of the Celtics dynasty HoFers I listed above could have put up more impressive numbers had they played elsewhere and been the #1 option. But they didn't, and became part of history for it.
     
  20. StephenHero

    StephenHero Senior member

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    They play to win with 10 other players of varying ability. There's a reason Robert Horry isn't part of this discussion.
     

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