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Skoaktiebolaget – Carmina, John Lobb, Enzo Bonafè, Carlos Santos, Saint Crispin’s, Rubinacci – Offi

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Leaves, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    The real answer to your question is there a difference between a calfskin Carmina and a calfskin GG.

    So as stated above: yes, and yes.
     
  2. CarlosMS16

    CarlosMS16 Active Member

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    Please keep me in the loop as well.
     
  3. tdes81

    tdes81 Senior member

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    Maiden voyage of my pair of vintage cherry St. James IIs that just came in thanks to Skoak and and the Brexit. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    7 people like this.
  4. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    It's a fair question and one that deserves a more detailed response than I have time to offer.

    I'll try to give you the point form version:

    1) No one element wholly defines the value of a pair of shoes. Not the construction method, not the material for the upper. Not the style or design.
    2) Shell isn't "better" than calf - it is merely a different material with a different source and different properties - some arguably better and others arguably worse when applied in the making of footwear. It is certainly more rare and more costly - but that's about it.
    3) Carmina is an excellent manufacturer - I own several pairs of their shoes and boots. I also own a handful of G&G. Carmina is not in the same league - period. When all aspects informing value are considered - design, style, last, quality and consistency in construction, quality of materials (not just the uppers) etc - G&G is clearly ahead. Adding shell doesn't elevate Carmina anywhere near the G&G level, much less beyond it. And yes, I own Carmina shell.
    4) Nothing wrong with the purchase of Carmina shell if that is what you want - I certainly have no regrets on the pairs I own and have owned. But if you think that shell alone makes it the equal of G&G you are kidding yourself.

    IMO.
     
    12 people like this.
  5. usctrojans31

    usctrojans31 Senior member

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    2 people like this.
  6. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    Well points taken. How does Carmina suede compare to the other above mentioned makers? I find Carmina suede extraordinary.
     
  7. tdes81

    tdes81 Senior member

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    I have to agree here. I have some Enzo Janus suede, and some Alden suede, and I feel like the Carmina suede is miles ahead. Just so silky and soft, it just glows.
     
  8. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    Gentlemen, some more Enzo porn for you guys......

    Chelsea boots, 74945 last, Vitello Nero, Vibram topy sole

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Button boots. Vitello Bergeronette with Reh lama shaft. 2102B last. Vibram topy sole.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Brown captoe oxfords with hidden seam. Vitello Meleze. 804 last, Single leather sole.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Finally, I found this quite amusing.

    [​IMG]
     
    17 people like this.
  9. bsmw

    bsmw Well-Known Member

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    @ThunderMarchmay I ask how's the difference in fit of the 804 last compared with the 74945 last and the 2102b last please? And is the 804 last more elongated than the 2102b last?
     
  10. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    I am normally a size UK8.5 in almost all lasts.
    For the 804 (my all time favorite RTW last), it's a little elongated with a generous toe box and instep. I take UK8 and this is the best fitting RTW last I have ever put my feet in.

    I have the 74945 in UK 8.5 for a chelsea boot and a chukka. While still retaining a fairly elegant look, it feels very generous overall, and once again it has a pretty high instep and possibly an even wider toe box than the 804. But it's not as elongated as the 804. I think once again, UK8 might be better for me. 8.5 feels a little loose.

    The 2102B is another elongated last but with a narrower toe box, and comparable instep to the 804. It has a sleeker profile than the 74945 as well, and is a square toed last. Since this was a button boot, I went down a half size. It fits ok, albeit a little snug. I would not be able to wear thick socks with this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  11. bsmw

    bsmw Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for the detailed reply.

    When you say 74945 last has wider toe box than 804 last, I suppose you are comparing UK8.5 of 74945 last and uk8 of 804 last?

    I own both 74945 and 2102b last and agree with your comments. Considering the 804 last for a button boots and wondering if I should size down half and whether should up with width at the same time.
     
  12. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    I have a pair of balmoral boots in the 804 last, size UK 8.5. So I am comparing 8.5 to 8.5
    The 74945 feels a little more generous comparatively.
    But do take it with a pinch of salt..... when you're comparing something fairly narrow to something even narrower, your feet readily discern the difference. But when comparing something wide, to something even wider, it becomes much more of an approximation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  13. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    LOL Mr Thunder March. Wonder if they're on SF or IG
     
  14. bsmw

    bsmw Well-Known Member

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    That's useful information. Thanks alot.
     
  15. bsmw

    bsmw Well-Known Member

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    One last question if I may...how does the height of the toe box and vamp area compares between 74945 and 804 last? I find the 74945 toe box fits me in terms of width but too much room above my feet in the vamp area.
     
  16. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    You might be right. even based on visual inspection there seems to be more volume at the vamp for the 74945.
    I haven't worn the 74945 for an extended length of time to really tell though.
     
  17. watchidiot

    watchidiot Senior member

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    So excited to receive mine too. I was on business travel last week so was not able to sort it out with Skoak, but should be with me next week.
     
  18. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Carmina suede is very, very good. Better than their calf, IMO. I don't own suede EG or G&G so can't offer a direct comparison, but it's not up to the level of my St. Crispin's suede (not would I expect it to be). Most of my Carmina purchases have been suede or shell. Almost all, come to think of it.
     
  19. bsmw

    bsmw Well-Known Member

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    I just bought my first pair of Carmina suede shoes and I am also surprised by the quality. I find the suede even softer and smoother than my EG Shanklin (though they are factory seconds).
     
  20. Cleav

    Cleav Senior member Moderator

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    I share this opinion
     
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