Sizing...can we please all get a grip?

[chronoaug]

Bona- Things can be cut well or cut poorly for the intended look/wearer. Some items just aren't designed/cut with any sense of fashion or fit in mind. Just a shirt to go onto a body. About fitting well on most people, that's a different matter. Even on an average build, gap dress shirts won't fit as well as some other brans you can find. To say that "everything is subjective" is a pretty pointless statement. One that equates dogs playing poker to Vermeer, or Eddie Murphy's "Party All the Time" to Mozart.

 

[Bona Drag]

Fair enough; again, I guess that's what I get for making generalizations about generalizations. But, since it came up, I would be interested to hear more about the process a higher end designer goes through making RTW stuff that results in it fitting a certain body type. I mean, I know they do more than BDG, but what are the specific differences?

Maybe we can still turn this into a useful threak.

 

[Kent Wang]

Yes, you would think that these companies would put a lot of time, money, research into getting sizing right. Why are the results so often off?

 

[Bona Drag]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

 

[Rye GB]

Originally Posted by Bona Drag

Fair enough; again, I guess that's what I get for making generalizations about generalizations. But, since it came up, I would be interested to hear more about the process a higher end designer goes through making RTW stuff that results in it fitting a certain body type. I mean, I know they do more than BDG, but what are the specific differences Maybe we can still turn this into a useful threak.
Everything fits the way it does for a reason. To presume companies are purely reckless and lack the skills to fit a garment correctly is wrong. I have manufactured for BDG and we go through 4 to 5 fittings before running production. There are errors on occasion but 99% Of the time stores will cancel orders if garments do not spec within tolerance (1/4" to 1/2" of target spec).

 

[milosz]

Individual garments may fit oddly, and some may be badly designed. But the original argument applies well to people who criticize Gap/J.Crew/BR or whomever for offering tailored/slim fits that aren't slim enough. The reality is that those are tailored for the average American - SW&D skews rather small (in both weight and height as far as I can tell), closer to or even smaller than Japanese or European averages.

It goes the other way as well - in Carhartt/Cabelas/LL Bean style workwear/outdoor wear, I'm a medium (and these are some of the best fitting shirts I own, actually). Personally, I find this absurd given that I'm 6-foot, 210-215 and lucky to fit into a XXL from some designers. But they're designed to suit their target market, who are most likely older/bigger and prefer loose fits.

 

[db_ggmm]

Whoah, thanks for the info, Rye. That's pretty interesting. Can you tell us more about how the fittings are done? On who? And for what market / ideals in mind?

re: OP - People aren't built the same, not even close, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with weight, either. Every item of clothing out there fits someone, somewhere. Nothing illustrates this better than an Amer App small vs an Alt App small.

Damn shirts are the same on me, except Alt App's arms are uncomfortably short, yet Alt App has many fanatics. But, Alt App had enough positive postings that I decided to pickup one wholesale and fit it myself. Didn't like it!

 

[martjc786]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

Yes, you would think that these companies would put a lot of time, money, research into getting sizing right. Why are the results so often off?

+1

youd figure that companys as a whole would have smaller discrepancies between sizes as well. seems like so much fabric is wasted between shirt sizes (in the sleeves, or the sides). youd also figure stores would keep track of their sales, and stock sizes appropriately (more XS, S, M, less XLs and XXLs).

 

[Rye GB]

Originally Posted by Rye GB

Everything fits the way it does for a reason. To presume companies are purely reckless and lack the skills to fit a garment correctly is wrong. I have manufactured for BDG and we go through 4 to 5 fittings before running production. There are errors on occasion but 99% Of the time stores will cancel orders if garments do not spec within tolerance (1/4" to 1/2" of target spec).

For instance with our Kill City brand I want an overall fitted silhouette, not crazy like BOO or Dior Homme but definitely closer to the body than your average American fit. In this case my fit model isn't overly built in the upper body, has a 32" waist 38"-40" chest; he's what we would consider a size Medium for "our" brand.
We have received criticism that our shirts and tee's fit small, but that's my intention, the boutiques love this and the department stores take issue, at the end of the day I'm trying to position a moderately priced brand with fit's that would normally only be attained through designer price point collections.
As far as how we accomplish our fit's a style being developed for a trade show may go through 3 fit sessions/pattern alterations dependant on whether the item is garment dyed or not (Garment dying is a pain **********, fabric from roll to roll can shrink differently). If the item goes into production we commence with a fitting of the salesman sample and if being developed domestically a garment will go through another 3 fittings, first fitting, pre production fitting "PP" and "Top Of Production fitting "TOP".
When we develop private label for various department stores the customer generally instigates the fit's they want, in the case of a particular customer we manufacture their jeans and they supply target spec's, whether I agree or not with those specifications I have to adhere to their needs. A project like this will usually need 3 fittings.

When I worked at Ralph years ago as a design assistant I recall a fourth fitting on a baseball hat that was a regular line item...that I never understood

 

[Trackstarr]

Originally Posted by syzygy

Guess this is sorta on topic...something I saw at a tommy hilfiger store...EVERY one of the mannequins were like this.
Saw that at H&M as well

 

[robertorex]

well there are the darts that everyone's been looking for.

 

[Transcendental]

Originally Posted by NaTionS

It's probably true that perhaps some people who say something "fits poorly" just have odd porportions but there's also some things that just fit poorly and it is the company's fault. The thing that comes to mind are RL regular fit polos. Way too boxy in the body.

Fits almost perfect on me. I am the ultimate barrel chest.

 

[aqhong]

Originally Posted by syzygy

Guess this is sorta on topic...something I saw at a tommy hilfiger store...EVERY one of the mannequins were like this.

Yeah, I see this pretty much everywhere.

 

[pcl]

Originally Posted by aqhong

Yeah, I see this pretty much everywhere.

Of course, and that's to be expected. After all, how many people's body are actually like the mannequine's?

Therein lies the rub, what's by design to fit on the general population will not look good on a mannequine, and clothes cut to fit to a mannequine probably can't be worn by majority of the general population. Thus the expected disconenct between fits on mannequines and catalog shots vs how it fits "on you".

Amidst all the hue and cry of "why won't brand x cut their clothes in such such way as to fit me. Why don't they have sizing that fits me ..." etc, we need to be remind of one thing - this is a business, even the most exclusive boutique brand has to sell and make profit to stay in business. So what the particular brand (be it mall brand or boutique brand) do offer likely IS what they have determined will sell in the volume and sizes to maximize their sale.

These brands are not just throwing random stuff onto the shop floor. While what they offer may not appeal to or fit you, it has to in the long run appeal to and fit *most* of their customers ... or they'd be out of business.

 

[Ludeykrus]

Pinned backs are the norm for displayed items.

I've basically developed the attitude that shopping entails finding good-quality clothing that fits pretty close to what you want, and tailoring is the means to achieving a 'perfect fit'. Everyone's body is different from everyone else's.

Then again, I don't pay for my tailoring, so maybe I'm spoiled.