Simple but high-end suit: RTW, MTM, Bespoke?

[Vuchko]

It can be if you choose a bad tailor. If you choose a good tailor, the process is easier than anything in RTW. You choose a fabric, stand naturally, and then take out your credit card. Come back a couple more times to stand still, and then you have your garment. If you need changes, the tailor should be able to change things for you. I buy bespoke largely because of the convenience.

It's hard to get good information about tailors, however. A lot of what's published online isn't that reliable, frankly, for a variety of reasons. People are more likely to say good things about a tailor, rather than bad (and not just because they're getting free products or whatever). Forums aren't that much better. Your best bet is to privately speak with the clients of a tailor you're interested in, and get their honest off-the-record thoughts. Hopefully someone who has had experience with other tailors and isn't just enthusiastic about the one new suit they got.

Even then, that's not a guarantee. I think your point earlier about how it can be expensive is fair. On some level, the only way you'll know if you'll like a tailor is to try him or her. Other people's experiences can give you an idea, but they'll never be a perfect measure.

My impression from online research is that top-class English tailors (i.e., Savile Row and its immediate offshoots) have the level of skill and professionalism necessary to deliver good results with high reliability, but with almost anyone else, it's a much more risky endeavor. (What I mean to say is not that every other tailor is bad or risky, but that good and reliable ones outside of the English elite are rare and hard to identify.) What's more, one often reads stories not only of unimpressive work, but also of crude mistakes and unprofessional behavior that I find shocking for a business where services are rendered at such prices and marketed as so luxurious and elite.

I won't give specific examples to avoid getting into debates about particular tailors, and also because any particular case might ultimately be unfair hearsay. But still, I think the above is a fair summary of what one will find when reading on the subject online, on this forum and elsewhere.

I would be curious to read your opinion on whether my impression is correct. If one can't get the sort of insider information you mention, is there any other way at least to make one's odds of success reasonably high, aside from going for some of the ultra-elite English tailors? (Or am I perhaps overestimating the odds even with these, or being too pessimistic about others?)

 

[dieworkwear]

My impression from online research is that top-class English tailors (i.e., Savile Row and its immediate offshoots) have the level of skill and professionalism necessary to deliver good results with high reliability, but with almost anyone else, it's a much more risky endeavor. (What I mean to say is not that every other tailor is bad or risky, but that good and reliable ones outside of the English elite are rare and hard to identify.) What's more, one often reads stories not only of unimpressive work, but also of crude mistakes and unprofessional behavior that I find shocking for a business where services are rendered at such prices and marketed as so luxurious and elite.

I won't give specific examples to avoid getting into debates about particular tailors, and also because any particular case might ultimately be unfair hearsay. But still, I think the above is a fair summary of what one will find when reading on the subject online, on this forum and elsewhere.

I would be curious to read your opinion on whether my impression is correct. If one can't get the sort of insider information you mention, is there any other way at least to make one's odds of success reasonably high, aside from going for some of the ultra-elite English tailors? (Or am I perhaps overestimating the odds even with these, or being too pessimistic about others?)

I don't think this is about English vs. non-English. There have been cases of really bad English firms that visited the US and just disappeared with people's money. There are two famous cases on the online fora with one tailor and one shoemaker, both of who were from London.

I think it's more about firm size. Larger firms tend to be more stable, as a whole, than small firms. The economics of visiting a city for custom tailors is tricky, and if you're dealing with ten orders for one particular city, a drop to eight could totally change your profit margins. If you're a larger firm, you're likely dealing in something like 40 suits, not 10, so two clients dropping isn't that big of a deal. You also have bigger cash reserves to run into the negative, should you need.

That's not to say large firms don't also have their problems.

To find a good, reliable tailor, I think it's good to start with a strong idea of what kind of silhouette you want. Then find someone who can likely execute that for you. Then message previous clients, should you know some. Get their honest opinion. Know a little about how patterns are drafted there, if possible. Know whether you'll be fitted with the cutter present. Those aren't guarantees to success, but they can help along the way. And don't meddle too much. More often than not, the problems I see come out of bespoke commissions are the client's fault. Someone comes in and dictates every little last thing.

But sure, bespoke is certainly more risky than RTW. With that, you can put it back on the rack if you don't like it. There's no guesswork.

I wouldn't go into bespoke if you'd be ruined by a bad $4k commission. Stuff happens. Maybe it's not the tailor's fault and you choose a fabric you ended up not liking (or wearing very often). This is why I think RTW and MTM can be good options for some people.

 

[Vuchko]

I don't think this is about English vs. non-English. There have been cases of really bad English firms that visited the US and just disappeared with people's money. There are two famous cases on the online fora with one tailor and one shoemaker, both of who were from London.

I didn't mean to say that all English tailors are somehow superior; in fact, I have no idea what their average quality is, and I'm sure some of them are very bad. What I meant is that if one looks for tailors who have the combination of skill and professionalism necessary to deliver good work with high reliability, it just seems that, by whatever historical accident, few of those have survived to the present day aside from the very elite English ones. (So it seems to me based on what I've read online, at any rate.)

Thanks for your other comments and advice.

 

[dieworkwear]

I didn't mean to say that all English tailors are somehow superior; in fact, I have no idea what their average quality is, and I'm sure some of them are very bad. What I meant is that if one looks for tailors who have the combination of skill and professionalism necessary to deliver good work with high reliability, it just seems that, by whatever historical accident, few of those have survived to the present day aside from the very elite English ones. (So it seems to me based on what I've read online, at any rate.)

Thanks for your other comments and advice.

I'm saying you'd get more traction if you looked at firm size. I assume by "horror stories," you mean Italian tailors. But the distribution of large and small firms follows closely England and Italy. The English firms that visit the US tend to be large; the ones from Italy tend to be small. But it's less about English vs. Italian and more about firm size. There are big Italian firms that will give you plenty of reliability and professionalism.

This is probably only important if you're interested in traveling tailors though. If you're interested in local tailors, the problems you might have with a traveling firm may not be there (at least not the one where they run off with your money).

 

[Newcomer]

I use only one tailor, Chris Despos, and despite being significantly more expensive than my go-to RTW, Eidos, I think the upcharge is worth every cent. I fully echo UC and Andy's experiences. I have had a fantastic experience with bespoke, both in the process and the result. Obviously, your mileage may vary - there are some that seem a bit more jaded about the bespoke process than others (and often for extremely legitimate reasons) - but there is a discernible difference between RTW, MTM, and bespoke, respectively. Even my first order fit perfectly, and was and is far more comfortable and well-fitting than any RTW that I own.

I am in a somewhat different situation than a lot of folks around here - I am located in Louisiana and my tailor is located in Dallas / Chicago. Accordingly, I have to travel to visit Chris. It can be mildly inconvenient. However, I really enjoy that I get to take a yearly trip to a different city, eat, and get a lovely suit. It has truly been an experiential adventure.

One final note. I am skeptical of a lot of MTM. There is a lot of good MTM, and there is a lot of bad MTM (just like bespoke, really). I think RTW offers you the least amount of risk.

Finally, I am wholly with Andy on the Kiton thing. And I will lump in Attolini and even Isaia. For that price, I am not sure what the hell someone is doing buying RTW (if they care about clothes).