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Shoulder expression

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jefferyd, May 25, 2011.

  1. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    If I may ask, what particular shoulder type would be more flattering for a guy like me (5'7 and slim with 36' chest and 30' waist)? Or would it not matter? Thxs!


    It depends on a lot more than just your height, chest and waist- the shape of your shoulders and their size and angle relative to the rest of you. Your personality and lifestyle also has a lot to do with it. Try a few of each on and see what you like best.

    great post jeffery.

    speaking of - i have always been curious as to how one achieves a pagoda shoulder.

    my uninformed guess is that the basic ingredients are a high collar, light to non-existent padding (maybe a bit as you get close to the shoulder to straighten things out), and a bit of roping.

    how wrong am i?

    TIA.


    Here
    , here and here
     
  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Great poast. I think it is safe to say that not every tailor has the same terminology when referring to certain suit attributes. So, knowing how to articulate differences in shoulder as opposed to sleeve cap is very important when dealing with your tailor. I feel that the amount of wadding in the sleevehead can change the look of the shoulder quite a bit and mask some of these textbook cases Jeffery has described.

    Also a certain term could mean something very different to one tailor vs. another. There is a great thread in the London Lounge on the crooked vs. straight debate that blew my mind. Nothing like a bunch of experts discussing the same terminology to mean different things.
     
  3. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Nothing like a bunch of experts discussing the same terminology to mean different things.

    The problem with internet forums, and one in particular, is that there are far more "experts" than there are people who actually know what they are talking about, and the "experts" are usually the loudest.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The crook v. straight thread on LL was not tailor vs. lay "expert." It was tailor v. tailor.
     
  5. niidawg3

    niidawg3 Senior member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    jeffreyd delivers again!!
     
  6. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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  7. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The crook v. straight thread on LL was not tailor vs. lay "expert." It was tailor v. tailor.


    Possibly- I don't remember it. But that's not the forum I have in mind.
     
  8. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Possibly- I don't remember it.

    It started with a Tom Mahon blog post on his own blog. Len Logsdail thought that it was innacurate and said so on LL. It was all very polite. I did not come away understanding what either crooked or straight really meant. I thought I did before I read the thread but didn't by the end.

    However, all the tailors I have worked with say that I need a crooked coat.
     
  9. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I did not come away understanding what either crooked or straight really meant. I thought I did before I read the thread but didn't by the end.

    I don't think you really need to understand certain things as long as your tailor does. I think Vox was right that sometimes a little information can be dangerous and I often hesitate in getting too technical but when I see people consistently confused about something I try to clear it up a bit. It seems I hear on a weekly (daily?) basis about someone wanting to take padding out, or someone commenting in WAYWN "too much padding" when it may not be the case at all.
     
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It started with a Tom Mahon blog post on his own blog. Len Logsdail thought that it was innacurate and said so on LL. It was all very polite. I did not come away understanding what either crooked or straight really meant. I thought I did before I read the thread but didn't by the end.

    However, all the tailors I have worked with say that I need a crooked coat.


    Edwin had some good illustrations in there as well. I think Len made it kind of easy to tell the difference based on the angle that pinstripes approach the skye. The more straight the stripes the straighter the shoulder point, the more pitched towards the skye the more crooked..
     
  11. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    To further clarify (I hope), all three of these garments have the EXACT SAME shoulder pad. I hope it is becoming clearer how much (or how little) the pad has to do with the expression of the shoulder.

    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

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    +1 ya this is very helpful & informative. I actually just got a vintage Jaeger suit from a relative and I'm having it fitted by a tailor here in HK. The shoulders are not totally my preference so this helps a bunch...thx!
     
  13. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

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    Great post, very informative.


    ...... It seems I hear on a weekly (daily?) basis about someone wanting to take padding out, or someone commenting in WAYWN "too much padding" when it may not be the case at all.




    to reiterate, too many SF'er assume that too much "padding" lead to the ROPED shoulder, so therefore, by removing the padding, the shoulder will be "natural". And because the natural shoulder is the current Styleforum choice, everybody wants a natural/sleeve-shoulder/water-fall shoulder.



    So then what is the purpose of having shoulder padding in the first place? What body-type would benefit from having padding?
     
  14. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    Thank you for this! I was just admiring the rope shoulder on my Zegna SC and didn't know what to call it [​IMG]
     
  15. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    So then what is the purpose of having shoulder padding in the first place? What body-type would benefit from having padding?


    Someone with sloped, hunched, or rounded shoulders would benefit. Also someone with very pronounced shoulder blades, or larger hips.

    I personally think that the majority of people could benefit with a bit of pad rather than the opposite.
    Take ODOT, for example- he has a well-balanced figure but his natural-shouldered suits make him look very bottom-heavy and pear-shaped.
     
  16. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    I hope it is becoming clearer how much (or how little) the pad has to do with the expression of the shoulder.

    I think it was about time you busted this myth.

    And because the natural shoulder is the current Styleforum choice, everybody wants a natural/sleeve-shoulder/water-fall shoulder.

    Truth.

    So then what is the purpose of having shoulder padding in the first place? What body-type would benefit from having padding?

    Someone with sloped, hunched, or rounded shoulders would benefit. Also someone with very pronounced shoulder blades, or larger hips.

    I personally think that the majority of people could benefit with a bit of pad rather than the opposite.


    Does anyone else think that if PG got his head out of his ass and actually really looked at the fit pics he pastes across 3 threads and his own brog, he'd realize that just maybe, he could use some padding? Or is it all a matter of personal preference at the end of the day?
     
  17. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    Someone with sloped, hunched, or rounded shoulders would benefit. Also someone with very pronounced shoulder blades, or larger hips.

    I personally think that the majority of people could benefit with a bit of pad rather than the opposite.Take ODOT, for example- he has a well-balanced figure but his natural-shouldered suits make him look very bottom-heavy and pear-shaped.



    Thank you very much jefferyd for the illustrations and definitions. We need more of this on SF.


    Also you are very polite. IMHO I would replace "bit" with "fair to alot". Also in terms of expression I have rarely seen someone with non-roped that would not look better with roped except for the most casual of casual................................ .........................pyjamas[​IMG]
     
  18. inlandisland

    inlandisland Senior member

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    This thread is much appreciated.
     
  19. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    Also, I'm not sure why but the bald shoulder always reminds me of apes [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The term bald shoulder is ironic to me because my father went bald and all of the hair that fell out replanted on his shoulders.
     

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