Should overweight guys who work out take Creatine?

[globetrotter]

Quote:

(globetrotter @ 15 Dec. 2004, 08:23)

Originally Posted by dah328,15 Dec. 2004, 08:12

Originally Posted by globetrotter,15 Dec. 2004, 08:44

if you should slow down or stop lifting, that mass will go right to fat. once you start taking creatine you are commiting to a life of lifting wieghts with intesity or being fat (this is from experience).
Not true. Â Muscle doesn't turn to fat. Â Muscle can atrophy and decrease in size. Â Fat is generally caloric intake in excess of one's energy needs. Â The two are largely independent. Â
actually, what I said was that mass will turn right to fat. If you mass 100K and of that 9 of that is fat while you are lifting weights 8 hours a week, when you stop lifting wieght you will eithr have to drop your body weight, fast, to remove the extra mass, or that mass will become fat (unless you grow some extra bone or something - which seems less likely).
Sorry- but I have to disagree as well. Â Muscle does not "turn into" fat. Â You may gain fat once you stop lifting or stop taking creatine because you continue to consume calories at the creatine/lifting level when your body burned more calories. Â If you stop lifting you will need to cut back on your calories or increase cardio to burn them off in another fashion.
CT, if you look at my answer to debaser, I think that we are saying the same thing. you are just less pompus about it.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think most people who are serious enough about weightlifting to benefit from creatine would be able to adjust their diet after cycling off creatine to adjust their caloric intake for the intensity of their workout... My weight doesn't change at all (if anything it decreases) when i cycle into the cardio phase of my workout off the strength phase where I'm doing heavy workouts 4 days a week and taking creatine and other supplements.

 

[globetrotter]

if you should slow down or stop lifting, that mass will go right to fat. once you start taking creatine you are commiting to a life of lifting wieghts with intesity or being fat (this is from experience).

not to be argumentative, but maybe what I should have said is that by adding creatine you are risking building muscle mass that will require either extensive wieght lifing or cardio extersize indefinatly, or will risk leaving you with habbits that will make it very easy to put on fat once you cut down your physical activity.

prep is, apparently, a mesomorph by inclination. I am not advising against creatine (I use it myself), but if weight loss proper is the aim, and one is not inclined towards long term commitment to serious excersize, then creatine might not be the way to go.

 

[Debaser]

now, if you stop lifting wieghts, you will lose muscle. granted, that muscle will not turn into fat cells magically. what will happen is that muscle will shrink. you, however, will continue to mass 100K unless you drop your caloric consumption dramiatically (probrably to less than 2500 calories for a period of time) or encrease your burn rate of calories dramatically.

now, if X and Y and Z = 100K. and Y is constant, and X is decreasing. what is left to encrease? now, you could choose to grow a bony ecoskeleton that will make up the delta, but aside from that the only variable is fat.


clear?

I understand what you're implying now. However it assumes that the trainee would be eating just as much after he stopped training, which I doubt would happen. That kind of eating is work in itself. When I was trying to gain muscle mass, I would eat a surplus of calories (obviously, otherwise I wouldn't make much progress). Now that I'm more performance-oriented and am at my ideal size, I eat a maintenance level of calories.

Your point is valid but not entirely relevant. I don't see why anyone would follow a weightlifter's diet without, well, weightlifting.

 

[globetrotter]

nice to meet you, debaser, I am globetrotter and I am the type of idiot that goes from 5 day a week powerlifting to not, and forgets to adjust my menu. it happens, and it ain't pretty.

 

[F4iryder14]

According to what I've already read on this thread, I'm some combination of the following:

- a competitive athlete
- too dumb to see through marketing untruths
- about to lose significant muscle mass since I recently cycled off creatine
- doomed to taking creatine for the rest of my life
- stupid for taking "drugs" to enhance performance
- extremely vain

Congrats on your current weight loss and best of luck with your workouts.

dan

I'm with you on this one too Dan.  A couple of notes on creatine.

1.  First the safety issue.  If not taken in excessive amounts, 5-15 grams a day for example, most people can get good benefits from it.  And there are no studies that indicate long term creatine use is harmful.  Granted it hasn't been around for 30 years, but none of the current studies look grim.  Cycling is still up for debate.  I do it because I think it helps because your body will get used to it if you take it all the time, but others take it year round and find it helps.  To each his own.

2.  It is a supplement more for, I guess the word most people would use, is the "hardcore lifter."  And there is nothing wrong with that.  To say that you're "extremely vain" or what not for taking it is a big jump in my opinion.  Some people take weightlifting/fitness more serious than others, that is why the product is offered.  Your "weekend lifter" who just wants to stay toned or whatever could benefit, but it does offer more benefit to those trying to bulk due to the effects it has.

3.  It does not do the work for you.  All creatine does is create a more anabolic environment.  The rest is still up the individual person to fit the rest of the pieces together to reach whatever fitness goals one has set.

Kevin

 

[ChuckE]

Below is a website that summarizes most of the scientific studies on creatine. In conclusion, they seem to get conflicting results. Some indicate no gain; the ones that record a gain boast of 1 to 2 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks after going off of creatine. http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/cr...bk.html#becque I conclude that this is not worth the time, cost and effort for a possible pound of muscle. During a 12 effort, one can increase muscle mass by 9 lbs without creatine; so the addition is quite small. You will temporarily bloat with water in muscle but this is temporary. You can get much more dramatic results by replacing your whey with casein (I can show you many studies that prove this). At 250, I would concentrate on weight loss while maintaining muscle mass with resistance training. If you also gain mass, that is a bonus. Moreover, the sugar spike that you must create for creatine absorbtion will work against your fat loss. Chuck

 

[ct2272]

I can only comment on my experiences with Creatine.

I have taken Creatine Monohydate on several occasions. I loaded once (15 grams per day for a week and then 5 gram daily maintenance) and then for the second time did the 5 gram daily maintenance without the loading.

For me, creatine increased my muscle size by drawing water into them. What I felt it did was delay any soreness so that I could lift more repetitions.

Comments
1. I felt a lot smoother. Because there was so much water in my muscles I lost all definition.

2. I noticed a 5 pound gain on my scale, but when I stopped taking creatine I eliminated that gain. Once you're off, expect to at least double your trips to the bathroom as your body eliminates it from your system.

3. I experienced more muscle pulls with it. Muscles are connected with tendons. While the creatine adds mass to the muscle, the tendons remain unaffected so it places unusual stress on them. I blame a hamstring pull on this.

4. The creatine that is unabsorbed by your body is eliminated through diarrhea. This one reason alone is why I would never try it again.

Regards,
CT

 

[Jamaietatasa]

Start the weight training now! The muscle will help you burn more calories and the weight will come off faster.

Don't listen to any body builder that tells you to take creatine or protein. There is NO scientific evidence that shows any of that works. A body builder may increase protien consumption a little bit over RDA values, but the typical American diet is already beyond that, so there is NO need to increase the protein in your diet.

 

[HgaleK]

Originally Posted by Jamaietatasa

Start the weight training now! The muscle will help you burn more calories and the weight will come off faster. Don't listen to any body builder that tells you to take creatine or protein. There is NO scientific evidence that shows any of that works. A body builder may increase protien consumption a little bit over RDA values, but the typical American diet is already beyond that, so there is NO need to increase the protein in your diet.
Holy thread revive, batman! Also, you're a fucktard. There's really no getting around this one. While it's now irrelevant as this thread is ancient, you just tried to **** all over the two supplements that have a mountain of evidence behind them, and have had this mountain of evidence for a couple of decades now. Additionally, RDA is bullshit. Example of old studies that show that you're an ignoramus:

A study done by Fern et. al (1991) showed that greater gains in body mass occur over four weeks of heavy weight training when young men consumed 3.3 versus 1.3 grams if protein per kilogram of body mass. In addition a study done by Meredith et al. (1992) found that a daily dietary supplement containing 23 grams of protein combined with weight training can enhance muscle mass gains relative to similar subjects who trained with out the supplement.

I can get examples of new ones too if you'd like, babe.

 

[darnelled]

The best medical article I've ever found on creatine and other supplements-
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/117/3/e577

 

[Transcendental]

Originally Posted by TheRookie

Creatine, if it works, will garner slight benefits in stength demonstration because of more rapid ATP replacement. It will also generate slight benefits in size because of increased water retention in the the muscles. Some people are nonresponsive to creatine supplementation.

If you are in the process of losing weight and creatine has the intended effect, you may find yourself gaining some weight back from the water retention. Additionally, when (if) you stop taking creatine, you'll lose most of the muscle size and endurance benefits.

No one other than a competitive athlete should contemplate wasting his money on creatine. The benefits are generally quite moderate if there are any. Like every other supplement, the creatine craze is a product of millions of marketing dollars rather than documented impressive results. Save your money, just stick with your workout program.


On a side note, most people create enough of it naturally, and I was once told that your production of phosphocreatine can be affected by too much monohydrate supplementation, but im not a fan of repeating blindly, so thats just another thought thrown out there and shouldnt be taken as fact (from me at least)

 

[suited]

Originally Posted by prepster

I am 36, 6' 2" and went from 300 pound two years ago to 255 now. I work out with a trainer 3 times a week, try to do extra cardio, and eat incredibly well.

At what point (or weight) do I add Creatine to the mix?

First, congrats on the weight loss. To address your question, I don't use creatine and personally, I think it's a waste of money (albeit, it is cheap).

 

[coco2010]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

There is your reason not to take creatine, besides the fact that it's a drug, and taking drugs to enhance performance is just stupid. Creatine is only for the hardcore lifters, and the extremely vain.