Should laces pull sides to meet together on balmorals?

[jrsmiles]

I have a pair of AE McAllisters and them straight laced, (European). I can't get them tight enough to make the two sides of the vamp meet to totally cover up the tongue and under lacing. They stay apart about a quarter inch or so. The shoes fit great everywhere else, and I don't see how stepping up in size just to make the shoe seal up when laced.

How is it "supposed" to look?

 

[Don Carlos]

You probably have a high instep, which prevents full closure over the tongue. I have the same problem. Not much you're going to be able to do about it unless you go bespoke someday.

 

[Harold falcon]

Originally Posted by jrsmiles

I have a pair of AE McAllisters and them straight laced, (European). I can't get them tight enough to make the two sides of the vamp meet to totally cover up the tongue and under lacing. They stay apart about a half inch or so. The shoes fit great everywhere else, and I don't see how stepping up in size just to make the shoe seal up when laced.

How is it "supposed" to look?

A half inch sounds like a lot. Have you tried a larger width?

 

[Kurt N]

Closed-up is the ideal, but a bit of a gap is common and obviously it's better to err on that side than having slack even with the laces snug. Don't worry about it. The gap will shrink over time as the leather stretches and conforms to your foot.

 

[Ianiceman]

Originally Posted by harvey_birdman

A half inch sounds like a lot. Have you tried a larger width?

That's what I would have said too. An open throat makes it look like the foot is straining against a too narrow width. Think of how your jacket vents would look if they did the same.

 

[jrsmiles]

I changed it to quarter inch, I tried them on and looked, I way over estimated.

 

[bigbris3]

It is normal. Some shoemakers (i.e. Tony Gaziano) actually creates the shoe to fit with the V shape as you've described. Sargent is doing the same. This is what the tongue is for, actually. Otherwise you'd see sock.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Originally Posted by jrsmiles

I don't see how stepping up in size just to make the shoe seal up when laced.
Sizing up not sufficient to close the gap.

How is it "supposed" to look?

ln perfect world,
completely closed.
Bespoke made that way.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir

Sizing up not sufficient to close the gap.


ln perfect world,
completely closed.
Bespoke made that way.

hard to achieve, due to the stretching from wearing.

a quarter inch is pretty much perfect. especially for standard rtw.

 

[Sander]

Originally Posted by jrsmiles

I have a pair of AE McAllisters and them straight laced, (European). I can't get them tight enough to make the two sides of the vamp meet to totally cover up the tongue and under lacing. They stay apart about a quarter inch or so. The shoes fit great everywhere else, and I don't see how stepping up in size just to make the shoe seal up when laced.

How is it "supposed" to look?

Apparently, there's no consensus on how it's supposed to look. CG mentioned that a guy at G&G (I think that's where it was) liked the quarters to be a little open; in the bespoke only shoe Appreciation thread luk-cha mentioned that his Japanese shoemaker likes them to be perfectly closed.
I, personally, think that not closed looks stupid. Have a high arch though, so duh.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by Sander

I, personally, think that not closed looks stupid.

I personally think fully closed quarters look stupid, like some kid's confirmation shoes "he'll grow into".

Perfection would be, the first two eyelets (from the bottom) close edge to edge, then a gap develops, leaving
about ¼ " between the top eyelets. Then you can adjust the lacing either way, depending on the temperature, time of day etc.

If new shoe close already edge to edge, you cannot pull them tighter if need be.

 

[DWFII]

I suspect that open a little or completely closed are personal preferences both on the part of the maker and the customer. It should be noted, however, that a shoe that closes completely on first wearing is likely to be sloppy-loose three four months down the line (three to four wearings for some). One of the signal characteristics of leather is that it stretches...more in some directions than others. If the quarters are cut so that the leather is "tight-to-toe," the natural stretch over the instep will be in the same direction as the laces are being tightened. Compounding this, shoes are ordinarily lasted dry and if the patterns are anywhere near correct, the leather will need only perfunctory pulling to come down "tight to the wood." The upshot of all of this is that there is plenty of residual stretch left in the quarters and a shoe will stretch some as it is worn. If the shoe is to be lasted with the facings closed, stretching has to be anticipated and the last made smaller than the actual instep girths on the foot. Making the last larger or smaller to accommodate individual feet is not really the province of manufacturers. Fitting is left to the customer. If the shoe is purchased so that it is comfortably snug with a quarter inch gap in the facings, the shoe will, almost certainly, close up from there over time. If the shoe is purchased such that there is no gap, the facings will still stretch but, unfortunately, there will be no way to snug up the shoe. BTW, just because you see a shoe...bespoke or RTW...depicted with no lace gap is not a guarantee that it was lasted that way...or even intended to fit or be worn that way. It's for presentation only.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

Perfection would be, the first two eyelets (from the bottom) close edge to edge, then a gap develops, leaving about ¼ " between the top eyelets. Then you can adjust the lacing either way, depending on the temperature, time of day etc.
+1

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

I personally think fully closed quarters look stupid, like some kid’s confirmation shoes “he’ll grow into”.
Yes,
me think that to.

Perfection would be, the first two eyelets (from the bottom) close edge to edge, then a gap develops, leaving
about ¼ “ between the top eyelets. Then you can adjust the lacing either way, depending on the temperature, time of day etc.

If new shoe close already edge to edge, you cannot pull them tighter if need be.

Well said.
Me think same on every point.
Yes.

In old age instep may fall.
Best to have it like Bengal Stripe say it.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I suspect that open a little or completely closed are personal preferences both on the part of the maker and the customer.

It should be noted, however, that a shoe that closes completely on first wearing is likely to be sloppy-loose three four months down the line (three to four wearings for some).

One of the signal characteristics of leather is that it stretches...more in some directions than others. If the quarters are cut so that the leather is "tight-to-toe," the natural stretch over the instep will be in the same direction as the laces are being tightened.

Compounding this, shoes are ordinarily lasted dry and if the patterns are anywhere near correct, the leather will need only perfunctory pulling to come down "tight to the wood."

The upshot of all of this is that there is plenty of residual stretch left in the quarters and a shoe will stretch some as it is worn.

If the shoe is to be lasted with the facings closed, stretching has to be anticipated and the last made smaller than the actual instep girths on the foot.

Making the last larger or smaller to accommodate individual feet is not really the province of manufacturers. Fitting is left to the customer. If the shoe is purchased so that it is comfortably snug with a quarter inch gap in the facings, the shoe will, almost certainly, close up from there over time. If the shoe is purchased such that there is no gap, the facings will still stretch but, unfortunately, there will be no way to snug up the shoe.

BTW, just because you see a shoe...bespoke or RTW...depicted with no lace gap is not a guarantee that it was lasted that way...or even intended to fit or be worn that way. It's for presentation only.


Thank you very much.
Me learn something today.

Best bit is this

If the shoe is to be lasted with the facings closed, stretching has to be anticipated and the last made smaller than the actual instep girths on the foot.

Very good.

Originally Posted by fritzl

hard to achieve, due to the stretching from wearing.

a quarter inch is pretty much perfect. especially for standard rtw.
Thank you.